Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 20:23:39 02/05/03
Go up one level in this thread
On February 05, 2003 at 22:03:02, Will Singleton wrote:
>On February 05, 2003 at 21:01:52, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On February 05, 2003 at 19:31:34, Will Singleton wrote:
>>
>>>On February 05, 2003 at 19:03:27, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 05, 2003 at 18:40:37, Will Singleton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 05, 2003 at 18:29:14, Martin Giepmans wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On February 05, 2003 at 18:05:27, Will Singleton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On February 05, 2003 at 18:00:11, Martin Giepmans wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Of course my engine thinks that it is winning big time after 16 g3
>>>>>>>>(instead of Bxh7+).
>>>>>>>>Is there any engine out there that doesn't agree?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Martin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The position:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[D]rnb1r1k1/pp3ppp/2p5/3p4/3P1Pnq/P1NBPK2/1PQBN1P1/R4R2 w - - 0 16
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>After analyzing with Ruffian, the following moves seem to be the best:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>16.g3 Nh2+ 17. Kf2 Ng4+ 18.Ke1 Qh3 19.Rg1 Nh2 20.Bxh7+ Kh8 21.Bd3 and white is
>>>>>>>much better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(btw, if 18.Kg2 Qh2+ Kf3 g6! =+)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, perhaps there's something wrong after 18.Ke1...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hmmm.. Ruffian doesn't see anything after 14 ply, still has the main line above
>>>>>>>at over 1 pawn for white.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I can't see it. Anyone have a clue?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Will
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My engine also doesn't see it (neither do I, but that's not amazing ;))
>>>>>>16. g3 wins, period.
>>>>>>Or is there something hidden in the deep?
>>>>>>Or was kasparov a little bit afraid?
>>>>>>Or is Rolf right after all?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Martin
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, I think my analysis was wrong. After 16.g3, black plays Qh2 instead
>>>>>of Nh2+, and then it's far from clear. Black looks like it will at least
>>>>>equalize, and with white's king stuck in the center, black could win it.
>>>>>
>>>>>It appears GK can see far more than your average run-of-the-mill GM commentator.
>>>>>
>>>>>Will
>>>>
>>>>After 16...Qh2 white could play 17.Bxh7+ in case 17.f5 17...h5 or even 17...Nd7
>>>>18.Kxg4 Qg2 is too dangerous for white.
>>>>White should be safe after 17.Bxh7+.
>>>>
>>>>Michael
>>>
>>>Yes, it looks like you're right.
>>>
>>>Will
>>
>>
>>When Kasparov chose Bxh7, he took a long time. Crafty was analyzing the
>>game live on ICC and turned in this 16 ply search result:
>>
>> 16-> 33:34 1.59 16. g3 Nh2+ 17. Kf2 Ng4+ 18. Ke1 Qh3
>> 19. Rg1 Nd7 20. Kd1 Nf2+ 21. Kc1 Nb6
>> 22. Re1 Nxd3+ 23. Qxd3 Bf5 24. Ng1
>> Qg4 25. e4 Bxe4 26. Nxe4 dxe4 27. Rxe4
>> Rxe4 28. Qxe4 Qxg3
>>
>>After the Bxh7 move, I instantly got this:
>>
>> 10-> 2.86 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3
>> 11 4.41 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3
>> 11-> 5.46 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3 (s=2)
>> 12 9.92 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3
>> 12-> 15.30 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3 (s=2)
>> 13 29.72 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3
>> 13-> 39.29 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3 (s=2)
>> 14 1:09 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3
>> 14-> 1:39 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3 (s=2)
>> 15 2:47 0.00 16. ... Kh8 17. Ng3 Nh2+ 18. Kf2 Ng4+
>> 19. Kf3
>>
>>I would have preferred to see the g3 line myself... It looked (to me anyway)
>>that white had a lot of life left there and was a piece up... The attack might
>>have looked scarey, but it really didn't appear to be so to the computer...
>>
>>I think he is simply not up to playing more games vs the computer. If I were
>>to venture a really outlandish opinion, rather than saying "DJ is maybe as
>>strong as DB" I now might say "DB might really be as weak as DJ". It appears
>>that Kasparov just doesn't have what it takes to play a 6 game match vs the
>>machines... Not having been there playing for a million bucks, I can't claim
>>to understand this. But I have played _many_ games against the machines (mine
>>and others) and I must say "I don't get it" myself...
>
>Maybe you misunderstood. The apparent best line is not 16.Bxh7+, but rather
>16.g3 Qh2 17.Bxh7+... so yes, g3 appears better than what GK played, but only
>by a small margin. Crafty doesn't see that 16...Nh2+ is perhaps weaker than
>Qh2.
>
>Will
OK... I was only considering 16. g3 vs 16. Bxh7.
I ran crafty after Qh2 rather than Nh2+...
It (so far) thinks white is significantly better off after Qh2 than after
Nh2+. Here's the output so far:
13-> 5:54 2.15 2. f5 h5 3. Rae1 Nd7 4. e4 Qh3 5. Nf4
Nge5+ 6. dxe5 Nxe5+ 7. Kf2 Qh2+ 8.
Ke3 Qxg3+ 9. Kd4 Nf3+ 10. Kc5 Nxe1
11. Rxe1
14-> 23:40 1.96 2. f5 Nd7 3. Kxg4 Qg2 4. e4 Nf6+ 5.
Kf4 dxe4 6. Bxe4 Nxe4 7. Nxe4 Qxe2
8. Rae1 Rxe4+ 9. Qxe4 Qxd2+ 10. Qe3
Qxe3+ 11. Rxe3 Bd7 (s=2)
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.