Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: endgame position - null move problem

Author: Filip Tvrzsky

Date: 21:12:50 02/06/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 06, 2003 at 16:57:29, Jon Dart wrote:

>Here's a position that occurred in a recent offline test game:
>
>{D] 8/6r1/p7/1p6/3kBn1P/P2p1P2/1P6/3R1K2 b - -
>
>Ke3 is winning here, but Arasan 6.3 doesn't get this, in fact it wants to play
>Rg8. It is apparently a null move issue. If I turn off null moves, or restrict
>the null move in the case where the opponent has an advanced passer, then it is
>solved quickly.
>
>--Jon

My engine Flip on Duron 900:
with null move 5 sec/depth 9, without null move 5 sec/depth 10. Strange ...

with null move
Flip  WB2:
D5  00:00  0,72   1. ... Ke3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rc3 Kd4 4.Rc8
D5  00:00  0,74   1. ... Ke3 2.Rc1 Ne2 3.b3
D5  00:00  0,80   1. ... Ke3 2.Rc1 Ne2 3.Ba8
D5  00:00  0,83   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.h6 Rg2
D5  00:00  0,84   1. ... Rg3 2.Re1 Rh3 3.Ba8 Rh1 4.Kf2
D5  00:00  0,86   1. ... Rg3 2.h5 Rh3
D5  00:00  0,92   1. ... Rg3 2.h5 Rh3 3.Bb7 Rxh5
D5  00:00  1,08   1. ... Rg3 2.Re1 Rh3 3.Bb7 Rh1 4.Kf2 Rxh4
D5  00:00  1,07   1. ... Rg3 2.Bb7 Rh3 3.Ke1 Ng2
D6  00:00  1,07   1. ... Rg3 2.Bb7 Rh3 3.Rd2 Rh1 4.Kf2 Ke3
D6  00:00  1,06   1. ... Rg3 2.Bb7 Rh3 3.Rd2 Rh1 4.Kf2 a5 5.Kg3
D6  00:00  1,06   1. ... Rg3 2.Re1 Rh3 3.Bf5 Rh1 4.Kf2 Rxh4 5.Re4 Kc5 6.b4 Kc6
D7  00:00  1,07   1. ... Rg3 2.Re1 Rh3 3.Bf5 Rh1 4.Kf2 Rxh4 5.Re4 Kc5 6.b4 Kc6
7.Rxf4
D7  00:00  1,08   1. ... Rg3 2.Re1 Rh3 3.Bf5 Rh1 4.Kf2 Rxh4 5.Re4 Kc5 6.Re5 Kb6
D7  00:00  1,14   1. ... Rg3 2.Re1 Rh3 3.Ba8 Rh1 4.Kf2 Rxh4 5.Re4 Kc5 6.Re5 Kd6
7.Be4
D7  00:00  1,30   1. ... Rg3 2.Re1 Rh3 3.Ba8 Rh1 4.Kf2 Rxh4 5.Re4 Kc5 6.Re5 Kd6
7.Kg1
D7  00:01  1,44   1. ... Rg3 2.a4 Rh3 3.Kf2 Rxh4 4.axb5 axb5 5.Ke1
D8  00:01  1,44   1. ... Rg3 2.a4 Rh3 3.Kf2 Rh2 4.Kg3 Rf2 5.Rxd3 Nxd3 6.Bxd3
Rxb2
D8  00:01  1,43   1. ... Rg3 2.a4 Rh3 3.Kf2 Rh2 4.Kg3 Rh3 5.Kxf4
D8  00:01  1,37   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Rg2 3.Rxd3 Nxd3 4.Kxg2 Nf4 5.Kf1 Nh3 6.h5 Kxe4
D8  00:01  1,21   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3
D8  00:01  1,21   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3 3.a4 d2 4.Bc6 Rg2 5.axb5
D9  00:01  1,22   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3 3.Bf5 d2 4.Be6
D9  00:01  1,23   1. ... Rg3 2.Rxd3 Nxd3 3.Ke2 Rg1
D9  00:02  1,29   1. ... Rg3 2.Rxd3 Nxd3 3.Ke2 Rh3 4.Bxd3 Rxh4 5.Bf5 Rh2 6.Kd1
b4 7.Ke1
D9  00:02  1,45   1. ... Rg3 2.Rxd3 Nxd3 3.Ke2 Rh3 4.Bxd3 Rxh4 5.Bg6 Rh2 6.Ke1
Rh1 7.Kf2
D9  00:02  1,64   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3 3.h5 Rh3 4.Bf5 Rxh5 5.Be6
D10  00:03  1,64   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3
D10  00:03  1,63   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3
D10  00:04  1,63   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3 3.Bxd3 Nxd3 4.a4
D10  00:05  1,64   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg3 3.h6 Rh3 4.Ke1 Rxh6
D10  00:05  1,65   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg3 3.h6 Rh3 4.Rxd3 Nxd3
D10  00:06  1,71   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg5 3.Rxd3 Nxd3 4.Bxd3 Kxd3 5.h6 Rh5 6.Kf2
Kc4 7.Ke1 Kd5 8.h7
D10  00:06  1,87   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg5 3.Rxd3 Nxd3 4.Bxd3 Kxd3 5.h6 Rh5 6.Kf2
Kc4 7.f4 Rh1
D10  00:07  2,27   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg5 3.Rxd3 Nxd3 4.Bxd3 Kxd3 5.h6 Rh5 6.Ke1
Kc4 7.f4 a5
D10  00:07  2,33   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg5 3.Bg6 Nxg6 4.hxg6 Rxg6 5.Re1 Kxf3 6.Rd1
Rd6 7.Rd2 a5
D11  00:10  2,34   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg5 3.Rxd3 Nxd3 4.Bxd3 Kxd3 5.h6 Rh5 6.a4 Kd2
7.Kf2 Rh1 8.h7 bxa4
D11  00:10  2,35   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg5 3.Rxd3 Nxd3 4.Bxd3 Kxd3 5.h6 Rh5 6.Ke1
Kc4
D11  00:11  2,41   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg5 3.Rxd3 Nxd3 4.h6 Nxb2 5.h7 Rh5 6.Bc2
D11  00:11  2,57   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 Rg5 3.Rxd3 Nxd3 4.h6 Nxb2 5.h7 Rh5 6.Bc2
D11  00:13  2,97   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Rxd2 Kxd2 4.h6 Rg3 5.b3 Nh3 6.Bc2 Rg1
7.Ke2
D11  00:14  3,03   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Rxd2 Kxd2 4.Bc6
D12  00:25  3,04   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Rxd2 Kxd2 4.a4
D12  00:26  3,05   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Rxd2 Kxd2 4.a4 bxa4 5.h6 Rg2 6.h7 Rh2
7.Kf2
D12  00:28  3,11   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Rxd2 Kxd2 4.a4 bxa4 5.h6 Rg3 6.Bd5 Nh3
7.Be4 Rg1 8.Ke2
D12  00:31  3,27   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Rxd2 Kxd2 4.Bf5
D12  00:39  3,67   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Rxd2 Kxd2 4.a4 bxa4 5.h6 Rg3 6.Bc6 Rh3
7.Bd7
D12  00:52  4,04   1. ... Ke3 2.Bxd3 Nh3 3.Ke1 Ng1 4.Rc1 Nxf3 5.Kd1 Kxd3 6.Rc3
Ke4 7.Kc2 Nd4 8.Kb1 Rg1 9.Ka2 Ke5

without null move
Flip  WB2:
D5  00:00  0,72   1. ... Ke3 2.Rc1 d2 3.Rc3 Kd4 4.Rc8
D5  00:00  0,73   1. ... Ke3 2.Bxd3 Nxd3
D5  00:00  0,80   1. ... Ke3 2.Rc1 Ne2 3.h5 Rg1
D5  00:00  0,83   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.h6 Rg2
D5  00:00  0,84   1. ... Rg3 2.h5 Rh3 3.Ke1 Rxh5
D5  00:00  0,86   1. ... Rg3 2.h5 Rh3 3.a4 Rxh5
D5  00:00  0,92   1. ... Rg3 2.Re1 Rh3
D5  00:00  1,06   1. ... Rg3 2.Bb7 Rh3 3.Kf2 Rxh4
D6  00:00  1,06   1. ... Rg3 2.Bb7 Rh3 3.Rd2 Rh1 4.Kf2 a5 5.Kg3
D6  00:00  1,05   1. ... Rg3 2.Bb7 Kc5 3.Bxa6
D6  00:00  1,02   1. ... Rg3 2.Bb7 Ke3 3.h5 d2 4.h6
D7  00:00  1,03   1. ... Rg3 2.h5 Rh3 3.Bxd3 Nxd3 4.b4 a5 5.bxa5
D7  00:00  1,04   1. ... Rg3 2.h5 Rh3 3.Bg6 Rxf3
D7  00:00  1,10   1. ... Rg3 2.h5 Rh3 3.Rc1 Rxh5 4.Rc3
D7  00:00  1,26   1. ... Rg3 2.h5 Rh3 3.Bg6 Rxf3 4.Ke1 a5 5.h6 Re3 6.Kd2
D7  00:01  1,46   1. ... Rg3 2.a4 Rh3 3.Kg1 Rxh4 4.axb5 axb5 5.Kf1 Nxd3 6.Bxd3
Kxd3 7.f4
D8  00:01  1,47   1. ... Rg3 2.a4 bxa4 3.h5 Rh3 4.Ke1 Rh1 5.Kd2 Rh2 6.Kc1 Rxh5
D8  00:01  1,48   1. ... Rg3 2.a4 bxa4 3.Rxd3 Nxd3
D8  00:02  1,50   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3 3.h5 Rh3 4.Kg1 Rxh5 5.Kf1
D9  00:03  1,51   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3 3.Bxd3 Nxd3 4.Rb1 Kd2 5.f4 Nc5 6.f5
D9  00:03  1,52   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3 3.Bxd3 Nxd3 4.Rd2 Kxd2
D9  00:03  1,58   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3 3.Bxd3 Nxd3 4.Rb1 Kd2 5.Re1 Rg1
D9  00:03  1,74   1. ... Rg3 2.b3 Ke3 3.Bxd3 Nxd3 4.Rd2 Kxd2 5.h5 Rg1 6.Kxg1 Nf4
D9  00:04  1,75   1. ... Rg3 2.h5 Rh3 3.Kf2 Rxh5 4.b4 Rh3 5.Kg1 a5
D9  00:05  1,76   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.a4 Ne2 4.Bg6 bxa4 5.Bc2 Rg1 6.Kf2
D9  00:05  1,77   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Bg6 Nxg6
D9  00:05  1,83   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.a4 Ne2 4.b4 Rg3 5.Bf5 bxa4
D9  00:05  1,99   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.a4 Ne2 4.Rxd2 Kxd2 5.axb5 a5
D9  00:05  2,19   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.h6 Rg3 4.Rxd2 Kxd2 5.h7 Rh3 6.b3
D10  00:08  2,20   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Bf5 Rg3 4.Bg6 Nxg6 5.hxg6 Rxg6 6.f4
D10  00:08  2,21   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.Bf5 Rg3 4.Rxd2 Kxd2
D10  00:08  2,27   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.h6 Rg3 4.Rxd2 Kxd2 5.h7 Rh3 6.Bd3
D10  00:08  2,43   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.h6 Rg3 4.Bg6 Nxg6
D10  00:09  2,83   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.h6 Rg3 4.Bc2 Nh3 5.Rxd2 Kxd2 6.Bb3
D10  00:10  3,50   1. ... Ke3 2.h5 d2 3.h6 Rg5 4.Rxd2 Kxd2 5.Bg6 a5 6.Bc2
D10  00:13  3,82   1. ... Ke3 2.Bxd3 Nxd3 3.a4 bxa4 4.Ra1 Kxf3 5.Rxa4 Rg2 6.Rxa6
Rxb2
D11  00:21  3,83   1. ... Ke3 2.Bxd3 Nxd3 3.a4 Nxb2 4.Rd6 bxa4 5.Rxa6 Nc4 6.h5
Nd2 7.Ke1 Rg1 8.Ke2
D11  00:21  3,84   1. ... Ke3 2.Bxd3 Nxd3 3.a4 Nxb2 4.axb5 Nxd1
D11  00:22  3,90   1. ... Ke3 2.Bxd3 Nxd3 3.a4 Nxb2 4.Ra1 Nxa4 5.f4 Nc3 6.Rc1
Rg1
D11  00:23  4,06   1. ... Ke3 2.Bxd3 Nxd3 3.a4 Rg3 4.Rxd3 Kxd3 5.Kf2 Rh3 6.Ke1
Rxh4 7.Kf1 Kc4
D11  00:26  4,06   1. ... Ke3 2.Bxd3 Nxd3 3.a4 Kd4 4.h5 bxa4 5.f4 Rb7 6.h6 Rxb2

Filip



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.