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Subject: Re: Questions about Junior5

Author: Serge Desmarais

Date: 22:34:30 09/28/98

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On September 28, 1998 at 09:28:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 28, 1998 at 03:27:27, blass uri wrote:
>
>>
>>On September 27, 1998 at 20:07:10, Serge Desmarais wrote:
>>
>>>On September 21, 1998 at 19:46:15, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 21, 1998 at 18:49:25, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 21, 1998 at 16:12:55, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 21, 1998 at 08:11:22, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is the version for sale better than the 16bit version that I and thorsten have?
>>>>>>>(I am not talking about speed because it is obvious that 32bit is faster than
>>>>>>>16bit)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You both got a version that was close to the final one but not the final one.
>>>>>>There were some changes added, but I don't think they affect playing strength
>>>>>>significantly. One change that was in the final 32-bit beta version (that played
>>>>>>against Zifroni) was finally not included, and the released version is almost
>>>>>>identical to the one that played Yudasin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is there an option to let underpromotion(not to queen) in the version for sale?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Amir
>>>>>
>>>>>	I am surprised. What does it mean that there is no option in Junior5 to let
>>>>>underpromotion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>ok, let's be accurate: The interface allows you to underpromote when entering
>>>>moves, but Junior does not consider underpromotions in its search.
>>>>
>>>>Amir
>>>
>>>
>>>That means if the only way to draw in the endgame for Junior, it will lose only
>>>for not considering the ONLY legal move that would save the game?
>>
>>yes
>>
>>> And what abou
>>>the "typical combinations" winning a piece, like QxN+, KxQ, Pmove=N+ and >then NxQ ending up a knight?
>>
>>
>>Junior will not see these combinations but there are not common(The probability
>>that it will be relevant in a game is less than 1%)
>>
>>This  "bug" was done in purpose to help Junior to save time in more than 99% of
>>the cases when only promotion to queen is logical.
>>
>>Uri
>>>
>>>Serge Desmarais
>
>
>
>actually it hardly saves anything at all.  In 99.9% of pawn promotions, in a
>full-width tree search, the promoted piece is "ripped" instantly.  Which means
>that after you search e8=Q, you *won't* have to search e8=R, because the
>position after Rxe8 is the same no matter what was there before, and the hash
>table prevents searching the nonsense.  And when the promoted piece doesn't get
>ripped away instantly, the big material advantage of having a queen means the
>under-promotions get pruned away very quickly, *except* for positions where they
>do count.  Burt Wendroff (previous post of mine) would argue with you about how
>frequently it comes up.  It doesn't matter *how frequently* it only matters
>*if*.
>
>Because if you don't do it you will draw a won ending, or lose a drawn  ending,
>or lose a won ending.  I don't think it's a worthwhile optimization...
>
>All it does is make the move generation a little simpler...


If you examine Fritz play in such positions, you will notice that when the
promoted pawn is threatened of an instant capture, Fritz will almost NEVER
promote to a queen, but will make a rook most of the time, as if to make it less
attractive for the opponent to capture it? (seems so if we apply a "human
reasonning" to this) Unless it "feels" it less costly to "lose" a rook than a
queen? I do not have the explanation for that way of playing.


Serge Desmarais



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