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Subject: Re: IA-64 vs OOOE (attn Taylor, Hyatt)

Author: Matt Taylor

Date: 20:20:52 02/12/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 12, 2003 at 04:45:42, Tom Kerrigan wrote:

>On February 12, 2003 at 01:58:36, Matt Taylor wrote:
>
>>Branch prediction is mostly unrelated to OOOE. The IA-64 does have branch
>>prediction. It does not have OOOE.
>
>Of course it's related. Compilers have to rely on static branch prediction (80%
>accuracy) if they're going to effectively advance instructions before branches.

80% accuracy when you do it at runtime. The compiler can know the -exact-
probabilities of each branch and take advantage of this. The compiler can know
with near-100% certainty where most branches will go. The only variable is
input, and every combination of input is assumed to have equal probability.

>>On a final note, the Athlon has a 72-entry integer scheduler and IIRC a 36-entry
>>FP scheduler. Athlon can therefore see up to 72 instructions ahead. (Remember --
>>1 DirectPath instruction translates 1:1 with a macro-op, or this is the
>>impression I get from the docs anyway.) The compiler can still see futher.
>
>Indeed. It's a shame only IA-64 chips run compiled code... oh, wait...

I'm sure I tried to claim that IA-64 is the only chip that runs compiled code.

Most IA-32 compilers do not attempt branch prediction. The Intel C compiler does
some; to what extent I do not know. I can't comment on the state of the IA-64
compilers.

>>No. Predication is the IA-64's answer to branch prediction. Predication is
>>completely unrelated to OOOE.
>
>What, exactly, do you think the point of predication is, then? It's to allow
>instructions to execute before the condition is determined, in other words, out
>of order. (Or at least in order without being dependent.) If you think
>predicated instructions are only executed after the condition is determined,
>then what is the difference between a "predicated branch" and a normal branch,
>besides some extra instructions?

Predication avoids small conditional branches such as the infamous abs, max, and
min functions.

>>Dr. Hyatt's figures "in practice" still show an 1 GHz McKinley 4 times faster
>>clock-for-clock than a Pentium 4.
>
>And every other SPEC program shows that "in practice" McKinley is clearly slower
>than a P4.

So there are two results, and you prefer to throw away one rather than
attempting an explanation.

>>The last two questions are more an answer to the question, "How will the IA-64
>>scale?" The question I am answering (and the question originally asked) is, "How
>>fast currently is the IA-64 compared to the IA-32/AA-64 in Chess?"
>
>Your confusion about the original question continues. Somebody asked what the
>relative advantages of x86-64 and IA-64 are. It had nothing to do with IA-32. I
>have no way to prove this because the post seems to be gone, but I also
>distinctly remember writing a post with lists of advantages for each chip and
>not mentioning anything about IA-32.

It has everything to do with IA-32. IA-32 is a standard to measure up against.
Furthermore, x86-64 has its history in IA-32. I believe IA-32 is perfectly
relevant even if only for explaining what advantages x86-64 will have.

>As for all the extraneous trivia you provided about the chips in question, don't
>bother. I already know it.

I post trivia in response to specific questions. Most of the time it is not for
your sake. The title of this forum is "Computer Chess Club", not "Computer
Engineering Consortium."

-Matt



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