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Subject: Re: Kasparov - Not the Ego but plain Lies about "Science"

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 06:28:22 02/16/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 16, 2003 at 08:38:43, Uri Blass wrote:

>On February 16, 2003 at 08:28:38, Frank Phillips wrote:
>
>>On February 16, 2003 at 08:19:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On February 16, 2003 at 07:23:29, Frank Phillips wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 16, 2003 at 07:10:34, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The gap between the best programs and part of the free programs programs is more
>>>>>than 500 elo on equal hardware.
>>>>
>>>>Can you point to the data source that supports this claim.  > 500 seems a bigger
>>>>gap that indicated by SDF and ICC.
>>>
>>>There are a lot of rating list
>>>The gap between the best free programs and another part of the free programs is
>>>also more than 500 elo.
>>>
>>>
>>>Look at the following list
>>>
>>>http://www.digichess.gr/infiniteloop/ratings/rapid_rating_il2r.txt
>>>
>>>Crafty17.9 2672
>>>Movei0.07a 2052
>>>
>>>
>>>Movei0.07a(my old program) is not extremely weak and it is
>>>more closer to the top than to the bottom that is
>>>LaMoSca 0.10 1183
>>>
>>>I said that the gap between the best programs and part of te free programs is
>>>more than 500 elo.
>>>I did not talk about the best free programs.
>>
>>I did not understand your sentence.  Clearly if the one you describe are bey
>>definition those >500 worse then the statement is obviously true.  I had in mind
>>Riffian, Crafty, Ferret etc
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hardware that is 100 times faster will not be enough to compensate for that
>>>>>difference.
>>>>>
>>>>>We do not know what was the level of the software of deeper blue because it
>>>>>never played games on equal hardware.
>>>>
>>>>Why should it have to play on equal hardware?  It was designed to a different
>>>>paradigm.
>>>
>>>If people use the speed of it as a reason to convince people that it was better
>>>than we need some information about it's level on equal hardware.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I also doubt the claim that the hardware was 100 times faster and we have no
>>>>>proof for the number of nodes that it searched(200M nodes could be a
>>>>>psychological war against kasparov when the real number was only 20M).
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>I wish IBM (or someone) would fund Hsu's next chip.  Then we would finally be
>>>>able to answer these questions   Of course, some would then deny the facts if
>>>>they did not fit their expectations ;-)
>>>
>>>No
>>>
>>>It can only prove in the best case for Hsu that Hsu is capable to do
>>>a chip that is better than the top programs of today.
>>>
>>>I did not claim that he is unable to do it.
>>>
>>>It is not going to prove that DB97 is better than the top programs of today.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>Moot as alawys.  It was interesting listening to Fed. on chess.fm.  He praised
>>Junior, but did not have it in the same class as DB 1997... Of course he may not
>>be impartial, but then again neither are the current set of commentators.
>>
>>My interest as stated before is more whether we actually need something as good
>>as DB to stand toe to toe with the elite GMs, or whether a good software package
>>(Hiarcs, Fritz, Junior....) on a fast PC is sufficient.
>>
>>If Hiarcs, Fritz and Junior really are as good as DB97 (in their different ways)
>>then the answer is yes anyway.... :-)
>
>I believe in software and not in hardware.
>
>I believe that there are a lot of ways to improve chess programs significantly.
>I believe that programs search too big trees.
>
>I believe that it is possible to get the same result by trees that are more than
>100 times smaller even relative to the commercial of today if people get the
>right ideas.
>
>Uri


I'm still not _totally_ convinced that the idea of the Turk is an _absolutely_
bad idea.

Rolf Tueschen




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