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Subject: Re: Kasparov - Not the Ego but plain Lies about "Science"

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 06:44:43 02/16/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 16, 2003 at 09:31:25, Uri Blass wrote:

>On February 16, 2003 at 09:25:14, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On February 16, 2003 at 08:28:38, Frank Phillips wrote:
>>
>>>On February 16, 2003 at 08:19:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 16, 2003 at 07:23:29, Frank Phillips wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 16, 2003 at 07:10:34, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The gap between the best programs and part of the free programs programs is more
>>>>>>than 500 elo on equal hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>Can you point to the data source that supports this claim.  > 500 seems a bigger
>>>>>gap that indicated by SDF and ICC.
>>>>
>>>>There are a lot of rating list
>>>>The gap between the best free programs and another part of the free programs is
>>>>also more than 500 elo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Look at the following list
>>>>
>>>>http://www.digichess.gr/infiniteloop/ratings/rapid_rating_il2r.txt
>>>>
>>>>Crafty17.9 2672
>>>>Movei0.07a 2052
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Movei0.07a(my old program) is not extremely weak and it is
>>>>more closer to the top than to the bottom that is
>>>>LaMoSca 0.10 1183
>>>>
>>>>I said that the gap between the best programs and part of te free programs is
>>>>more than 500 elo.
>>>>I did not talk about the best free programs.
>>>
>>>I did not understand your sentence.  Clearly if the one you describe are bey
>>>definition those >500 worse then the statement is obviously true.  I had in mind
>>>Riffian, Crafty, Ferret etc
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hardware that is 100 times faster will not be enough to compensate for that
>>>>>>difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We do not know what was the level of the software of deeper blue because it
>>>>>>never played games on equal hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why should it have to play on equal hardware?  It was designed to a different
>>>>>paradigm.
>>>>
>>>>If people use the speed of it as a reason to convince people that it was better
>>>>than we need some information about it's level on equal hardware.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I also doubt the claim that the hardware was 100 times faster and we have no
>>>>>>proof for the number of nodes that it searched(200M nodes could be a
>>>>>>psychological war against kasparov when the real number was only 20M).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>I wish IBM (or someone) would fund Hsu's next chip.  Then we would finally be
>>>>>able to answer these questions   Of course, some would then deny the facts if
>>>>>they did not fit their expectations ;-)
>>>>
>>>>No
>>>>
>>>>It can only prove in the best case for Hsu that Hsu is capable to do
>>>>a chip that is better than the top programs of today.
>>>>
>>>>I did not claim that he is unable to do it.
>>>>
>>>>It is not going to prove that DB97 is better than the top programs of today.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>Moot as alawys.  It was interesting listening to Fed. on chess.fm.  He praised
>>>Junior, but did not have it in the same class as DB 1997... Of course he may not
>>>be impartial, but then again neither are the current set of commentators.
>>>
>>>My interest as stated before is more whether we actually need something as good
>>>as DB to stand toe to toe with the elite GMs, or whether a good software package
>>>(Hiarcs, Fritz, Junior....) on a fast PC is sufficient.
>>>
>>>If Hiarcs, Fritz and Junior really are as good as DB97 (in their different ways)
>>>then the answer is yes anyway.... :-)
>>
>>
>>As Bob's little brother I want to participate in the race. Here is my verdict
>>from a science point of view:
>>
>>If you take the best DBnm you could make in 10 years, right, then this DB could
>>STILL NOT stand toe to toe with our then best GM. [Here I must exclude all show
>>event results. Because otherwise I must announce my own becoming World Champion
>>in a match against Kasparov for the incredibly high sum of 230 million US $$
>>offered of course prior to the MATCH.]
>>
>>
>>:)
>
>I think that you chose the wrong game.
>
>Maybe in go the best thing is going to lose against the world champion in 2013
>but not in chess.
>
>Uri


Uri, hehe,

NOT the THING will play but me myself against the then World Champion for 230
million US $$! Of course in a show event. But what is right for DJ cannot be
false for Rolf?

Rolf Tueschen



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