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Subject: Re: Kasparov - Not the Ego but plain Lies about "Science"

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 10:25:12 02/16/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 16, 2003 at 12:53:13, Jonas Cohonas wrote:

>On February 16, 2003 at 09:16:54, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On February 16, 2003 at 08:19:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On February 16, 2003 at 07:23:29, Frank Phillips wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 16, 2003 at 07:10:34, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The gap between the best programs and part of the free programs programs is more
>>>>>than 500 elo on equal hardware.
>>>>
>>>>Can you point to the data source that supports this claim.  > 500 seems a bigger
>>>>gap that indicated by SDF and ICC.
>>>
>>>There are a lot of rating list
>>>The gap between the best free programs and another part of the free programs is
>>>also more than 500 elo.
>>>
>>>
>>>Look at the following list
>>>
>>>http://www.digichess.gr/infiniteloop/ratings/rapid_rating_il2r.txt
>>>
>>>Crafty17.9 2672
>>>Movei0.07a 2052
>>>
>>>
>>>Movei0.07a(my old program) is not extremely weak and it is
>>>more closer to the top than to the bottom that is
>>>LaMoSca 0.10 1183
>>>
>>>I said that the gap between the best programs and part of te free programs is
>>>more than 500 elo.
>>>I did not talk about the best free programs.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hardware that is 100 times faster will not be enough to compensate for that
>>>>>difference.
>>>>>
>>>>>We do not know what was the level of the software of deeper blue because it
>>>>>never played games on equal hardware.
>>>>
>>>>Why should it have to play on equal hardware?  It was designed to a different
>>>>paradigm.
>>>
>>>If people use the speed of it as a reason to convince people that it was better
>>>than we need some information about it's level on equal hardware.
>>
>>
>>I am a science dickhead. Again: the 100x are not being used to PROVE that DB2
>>was stronger. They are used to doubt the claim that DJ is stronger. Excuse me,
>>Uri, let's not confuse the question.
>>
>>Rolf Tueschen
>
>A real scientist would also look at the time gap between DB2 and DJ and
>understand that the argument goes both ways, the fact that DJ is 6 years ahead
>of DB2 in terms of development could bring one to doubt that such an old machine
>is stronger than DJ...
>
>Science is also about questioning ones own convictions, if one fail to do that
>then one is a fanatic.

If I have a good argument then why should I doubt it. If you have a
counter-argument then go ahead, I'm waiting. But in the meantime I prefer one
Bob to 100x Jonas, that's all. And Bob said that 100x in speed is a killer.
Period.
You are producing hor air nothing else. How should 6 years mean much if speed is
a killer? We are NOT talking about DB2 vs DJ, we are talking about comp vs
human. Did you forget it?

Rolf Tueschen



>
>If we where to compare DB2 and DJ, then we should do it on equal terms and give
>DJ the same hardware or more realistic, take the DB2 97 engine and put it on
>same hardware as DJ ran on in the Kasparov match and then have a match, well i
>know who my money would be on.
>
>BTW i thought you did not use bad language??
>
>Jonas



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