Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Whoops, wrong starting position...

Author: Steffen Basting

Date: 12:34:30 02/17/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 17, 2003 at 15:24:42, John Merlino wrote:

>On February 17, 2003 at 15:06:15, Steffen Basting wrote:
>
>>The position I just gave was 1 move before the one from which I gave the
>>analysis - fxg3+ and Nxg3 were played, so the position is:
>>
>>[D] 2bn1rk1/4r2p/p2p4/1ppPp3/8/2P2PN1/PP1Q1KBq/3R3R b - - 0 28
>>
>>Regards, Steffen
>
>Chessmaster 9000 does not see losing the queen as being forced:
>
>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>0:00	1/3	-1.84	1560		28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Ke4
>					Qxg3 31.Rdf1
>0:00	1/4	-1.82	4117		28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Nf5
>					Rxf5+ 31.Ke4 Rf4+ 32.Kd3 Bf5+ 33.Ke3
>0:00	1/5	-2.96	14542		28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Ke4
>					Qxg3 31.Rdf1 Bf5+ 32.Rxf5 Rxf5
>					33.Rf1 Qg4+ 34.Ke3 Rxf1 35.Bxf1
>0:00	1/6	-2.96	38279		28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Ke4
>					Qxg3 31.Rdf1 Bf5+ 32.Rxf5 Rxf5
>					33.Rf1 Qg4+ 34.Ke3 Rxf1 35.Bxf1
>0:01	1/7	-3.41	98592		28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Ke4
>					Qxg3 31.Rdf1 Bf5+ 32.Rxf5 Rxf5
>					33.Rf1 Qg4+ 34.Ke3 Qg5+ 35.Kd3
>					e4+ 36.Kc2 Qxd2+ 37.Kxd2 Rxd5+
>					38.Ke3
>0:03	1/8	-4.95	326131		28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Ke4
>					Qxg3 31.Rdf1 c4 32.Bf3 Bf5+ 33.Ke3
>					Bg4 34.Qf2 Rxf3+ 35.Qxf3 Bxf3 36.Rxf3
>
>0:08	1/9	-6.13	840231		28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Ke4
>					Qxg3 31.Rdf1 Bf5+ 32.Rxf5 Rxf5
>					33.Rf1 Rh5 34.Bf3 Rh4+ 35.Kd3 e4+
>					36.Kc2 exf3
>0:24	1/10	-6.63	2688418		28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Ke4
>					Qxg3 31.Rhf1 Bf5+ 32.Rxf5 Rxf5
>					33.Rf1 Rh5 34.Rh1 Qg6+ 35.Ke3 Rxh1
>					36.Bxh1 Qh6+ 37.Kd3 Qxh1
>1:05	2/11	-6.40	7163454		28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Ke4
>					Qxg3 31.Rdf1 Bf5+ 32.Rxf5 Rxf5
>					33.Rf1 Rh5 34.Rh1 Qg6+ 35.Ke3 Rxh1
>					36.Bxh1 Qh6+ 37.Kd3 Qh3+ 38.Qe3
>					Qf1+ 39.Kc2 Qxh1
>2:07	3/12	-6.17	14637651	28...Rxf3+ 29.Kxf3 Rf7+ 30.Ke4
>					Qxg3 31.Rdf1 Bf5+ 32.Rxf5 Rxf5
>					33.Rf1 Rh5 34.Rh1 Rg5 35.Bf3 Rg4+
>					36.Ke3 e4 37.Rf1 Qf4+ 38.Ke2 Qxd2+
>					39.Kxd2 exf3 40.Rxf3
>
>After forcing all moves up to 33.Rf1, it still does not see White losing its
>Queen. However, it DOES see that Black will be up at least a Knight and two
>passed pawns:
>
>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>0:00	1/3	-3.72	2073		33...Qg4+ 34.Ke3 Qg5+ 35.Kd3 e4+
>					36.Kc2 Qxd2+ 37.Kxd2 Rxd5+ 38.Ke3
>0:00	1/4	-3.72	5017		33...Qg4+ 34.Ke3 Qg5+ 35.Kd3 e4+
>					36.Kc2 Qxd2+ 37.Kxd2 Rxd5+ 38.Ke3
>0:00	1/4	-6.33	15016		33...Rh5 34.Bf3 Rh4+ 35.Kd3 e4+
>					36.Kc2 exf3
>0:00	1/5	-6.73	25356		33...Rh5 34.Rf3 Qg4+ 35.Ke3 Qg5+
>					36.Ke2 Qxg2+ 37.Rf2 Rh2
>0:00	1/6	-6.55	66560		33...Rh5 34.Rh1 Qg6+ 35.Ke3 Qh6+
>					36.Kd3 Rxh1 37.Bxh1 Qh3+ 38.Qe3
>					Qf1+ 39.Kc2 Qxh1
>0:01	1/7	-6.30	140917		33...Rh5 34.Rh1 Rg5 35.Bf3 Rg4+
>					36.Ke3 e4 37.Qf2 Qf4+ 38.Ke2 exf3+
>					39.Qxf3 Qxf3+ 40.Kxf3
>0:03	1/8	-4.53	317141		33...Rh5 34.Rh1 Rxh1 35.Bxh1 Qg4+
>					36.Kd3 Qh3+ 37.Ke2 Qh2+ 38.Kd3
>					c4+ 39.Kc2 Qxh1 40.Qg5+ Kf7 41.Qxd8
>					Qxd5
>0:06	1/9	-6.95	738026		33...Rh5 34.Rh1 Rxh1 35.Bxh1 Nf7
>					36.Qc1 Kg7 37.Qe3 Qg4+ 38.Kd3 Qd1+
>					39.Qd2 Qb1+ 40.Ke3 Qxh1
>0:12	2/10	-6.95	1429928		33...Rh5 34.Rh1 Rxh1 35.Bxh1 Nf7
>					36.Qc1 Kg7 37.Qe3 Qg4+ 38.Kd3 Qd1+
>					39.Qd2 Qb1+ 40.Ke3 Qxh1
>0:44	3/11	-7.60	5196070		33...Rh5 34.Rh1 Rxh1 35.Bxh1 Nf7
>					36.a4 Kg7 37.Qe3 Qh4+ 38.Kd3 Qxh1
>					39.Kc2 Qg2+ 40.Kc1 bxa4
>2:05	4/12	-7.60	15415374	33...Rh5 34.Rh1 Rxh1 35.Bxh1 Nf7
>					36.b3 Kg7 37.Qe3 Qh4+ 38.Kd3 Qxh1
>					39.Qg3+ Kf8 40.Ke3 Qxd5 41.Qg4
>
>jm

Hi!
Thanks for your reply! I was too sure that after
33.      - Rxf1
34. Bxf1 - Nf7
white will lose the queen. But this doesn't seem to be the case as
35. Qe3
loses just the bishop, and results in the same material balance you mentioned.
So, finding Rxf3+ and the correct next moves really isn't a big problem for
chess programs :-)

Regards, Steffen



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.