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Subject: Re: Some Crafty 16.19 results on my XP 2.44GHz

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 06:55:56 02/21/03

Go up one level in this thread


On February 21, 2003 at 06:47:48, enrico carrisco wrote:

>On February 20, 2003 at 11:55:42, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On February 20, 2003 at 09:36:24, Jeremiah Penery wrote:
>>
>>>Prime95 is a real-world application.  It does very intense mathematical
>>>calculation, testing several-million-digit numbers for primality.  I don't
>>>believe there's another program that will detect CPU problems faster.
>>>
>>
>>The problem is that it won't detect _any_ floating point problems.  Nor problems
>>with unlikely instructions such as BSF/BSR, or fiddling with O/S issues like
>>cache flushing, fiddling with the memory type and range registers, and so forth.
>>
>>There is a _lot_ of the chip that such an application simply doesn't touch, and
>>when
>>you use such a test to say "it works" it is like flipping a coin.  If all you do
>>is use
>>the same instructions, you may well have a winner.  But if you use something
>>that your
>>test didn't exercise, who knows?
>>
>>I don't have time for those kinds of random problems.  If you do, that's
>>certainly up
>>to you to choose overclocking.
>>
>>
>>>I overclocked my CPU for a while, and it appeared to be completely stable.  I
>>>could run Crafty for days with no problems, and I never had a crash or bug in
>>>any other application.  I ran Prime95 for a while, where a calculation error was
>>>soon detected.  Of course, when I clocked back to the normal level, the error
>>>went away.
>>
>>Unfortunately your testing is backward.  You assumed it was good because it ran
>>without "crashing".  But are you _sure_ crafty never computed a bad score?  Or
>>hosed
>>the hash signature?  Or generated a bogus move?  No way to know.  And if prime95
>>runs with no errors, are you _sure_ all the floating point stuff works?  MMX
>>stuff
>>works?  Oddball things like bsf/bsr?
>>
>>That's the flaw in this...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I was running at somewhere near the maximum rated speed for that particular
>>>core, which had about zero headroom to begin with, so the errors weren't all
>>>that surprising to me.  Had I bought a slower chip, I could have overclocked it
>>>to the speed of my current chip very safely, as the core obviously has the
>>>ability to run at that speed.  Overclocking becomes particularly unsafe when one
>>>tries to run at a speed above the normal ability of the core.  Otherwise, it's
>>>not much more than what the manufacturers do by taking chips from the same
>>>silicon wafer and splitting them into different CPU speed bins, as those chips
>>>should be theoretically _identical_.
>>
>>Note that we are not talking about buying 2.0ghz xeons and overclocking to 2.4.
>>We are
>>talking about buying the fastest chips made and overclocking _those_.  That is a
>>completely
>>different issue, and that is what is being done in the cases being discussed...
>
>How do you know what the maximum _planned_ speed of a certain core is?  Until
>you know that, the whole discussion is an endless loop.
>
>-elc.


When I did TTL design years ago, I simply took the published gate delays for
every circuit I used.  NAND gates, NOR gates, 16-1 mux, 1-16 demux, an ALU,
you name it.  I added up the gate delays, plus the published tolerances, and
started testing somewhere longer than that and shortened the clock to the
actual number computed by the longest-path analysis.

The engineers _know_ what the max speed is.  I hope you don't think they lay
the thing out, build it, then see how fast it will run?



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