Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 03:43:13 02/24/03
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On February 24, 2003 at 05:45:13, Alastair Scott wrote: >On February 23, 2003 at 18:17:02, Rolf Tueschen wrote: > >>As usual I research the more general problems, since I am not a born programmer. >> >>When I see that many people in CC support around 200 amateurs - that's how they >>are called- who created FREE programs, and certain spin doctors who write about >>"difficulties" for the "professional" experts, I see several questions. >> >> >>1) Who created the many features say of the ChessBase database program? FREE >>amateurs or professionals? > >Who created what could generally be considered as the first chess database? >(Don't know myself). I presume that would have been used as a template for all >that followed; see 3. > >>2) Could someone tell me what feature, just 1 example because I don't know any, >>was at first created by amateurs? > >I don't know enough about chess programs in history to comment onthat. However, >if you think about graphical user interfaces (GUIs) there are all sorts of >features that were originally created as add-ons by amateurs (to correct >perceived defects) and were co-opted into the commercial GUI. The best examples >are with MacOS because, really, the modern GUI was worked out in public, and at >least the following techniques were first created by amateurs as add-ons to >MacOS: > >skinning >full anti-aliasing of on-screen fonts >shading (click on the window title bar and the window 'rolls up', click again >and it 'rolls down') >hierarchical menus (!) > >More recently, off the top of my head, 'amateurs' have created support for >vector-based icons (SVG format) in KDE and Gnome; other GUIs don't have that >feature, but you can be sure it'll be co-opted elsewhere as it looks good. > >>3) I read that people adore FREE programs like ARENA. They are proud that ARENA >>has all the features, or almost all, ChessBase also has; I ask if ARENA is a >>clone of ChessBase8? > >scid is normally considered to be a 'chess database' (unlike Arena) but I would >never consider it a ChessBase clone; the functions are largely the same but the >whole operation is radically different. > >(Bear in mind that pioneers, unavoidably, set the scene for everyone else to >follow; if you look at screen shots of Xerox PARC's first GUI it seems >remarkably familiar). > >>4) As a more technical question: Is a smart amateur programmer able to program a >>clone of professional products? Or is cloning impossible if the code is secret? > >I'd imagine a clone of a chess database, for example, is relatively easy because >the functionality is all up front (so can be translated into another development >environment) and there is no complex reverse engineering required, apart >(possibly) of file formats if you don't just stick to PGN. Cloning something >like an encryption algorithm, where you have input X and output Y but no direct >indication of how Y was derived from X, would be far more difficult, possibly >impossible. > >>5) Could someone show - perhaps for other fields - what results out of the so >>called copying of professional ideas and products? Isn't it the consequence that >>the professional creative people become exhausted? > >I would hardly say that the potential of the GUI is exhausted because Apple, >Microsoft, Gem, ..., KDE, Gnome copied Xerox PARC's work! (Come to think of it, >to get anywhere at all how could they _not_ have copied it? If Xerox had clamped >down the GUI with copyrights that would have been infinitely more harmful to >computing in the long run; there would have been 'one correct GUI', a ridiculous >concept as, as I've noted, a good GUI feeds off all sorts of sources). > >>6) Then, is't it a consequence that then also the amateurs have no longer >>something to copy? [NB I do NOT say that amateurs only copy all day long. See >>point 4 where I ask if copying is possible.] > >I think that KDE and Gnome are doing perfectly well copying ... and then >extending on what is offered by MacOS or Windows. (90 per cent of all GUIs are >functionally equivalent. The other 10 per cent is the interesting part). > >>7) Who could tell me how the development in a field continues in case of >>amateurs cloning? > >As described; Windows XP and MacOS X happened despite KDE and Gnome being >developed and given away for nothing ;) > >>8) In short: I see the danger of less progress and NOT- what the supporters and >>fans are doing - a higher coloring of a scene. > >I don't think this has ever been the case, certainly not in IT. > >Alastair > >PS In some ways the Windows/MacOS - KDE/Gnome analogy is bad because the first >two have enormous inertia (people already have software and hardware for them >and don't want to change) so could ignore the last two. However, I don't think >that's the case; it would be a very foolish user interface designer who ignored >what was going on elsewhere. For several reasons you gave a fantastic answer. It's very hard to digest but what I understand is that the overall development is NOT in danger, because it always worked in the past, even with different "companies" involved. ow that is breathtaking. But let me also point out that the language alone, the techno vocabulary, is a) a good picture of the real background of such a topic and b) the difficulties arising the moment you enter into "real" stuff. Frankly, you forced me to buy a different dictionnary because most of the terms are technolocical IT expressions! Not that it matters when I have enough to do with the care for my keyboard's "n", that is simply leaving me most of the time, although I hit it with the same force all the others get. Please do understand my more interdisciplinary approach. I think you have seen the CB8 display. What I want to know from you as the expert, is there ANYTHING AT ALL you discovered that could be called a genuinely ChessBase invention? I ask this: for an expert is there anything surprising and new that hit his eyes or is it all so oddly normal - what in fact by mere overflooding takes the lay for a ride? So far about different perceptions. BTW did you know that in motion pictures the 'overloading' principle (for the single set) is applied? Or this one: What is the button or item that caught your attention at first? Would be really interesting to listen to your experiences. Rolf Tueschen
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