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Subject: Re: Since the CPU is what really count for Chess !

Author: Tom Kerrigan

Date: 16:45:43 03/18/03

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On March 18, 2003 at 18:20:14, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On March 18, 2003 at 17:46:10, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>
>>On March 18, 2003 at 16:37:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>>>1.  no interleaving, which means that the raw memory latency is stuck at
>>>>>120+ns and stays there.  Faster bus means nothing without interleaving,
>>>>>if latency is the problem.
>>>>
>>>>Uh, wait a minute, didn't you just write a condescending post to me about how
>>>>increasing bandwidth improves latency? (Which I disagree with...) You can't have
>>>>it both ways.
>>>>
>>>>Faster bus speed improves both latency and bandwidth. How can it not?
>>>
>>>It doesn't affect random latency whatsoever.  It does affect the time taken to
>>>load a
>>>cache line.  Which does affect latency in a different way.  However,
>>>interleaving does
>>>even better as even though it doesn't change latency either, it will load a
>>>cache line even
>>>faster.
>>
>>Are you kidding me? How can FSB speed _not_ affect latency?
>
>Very simple.  Latency is caused _in_ the memory system, only a tiny part of
>latency
>is caused by the delay of shipping the data over the bus.  If you ran the bus
...
>Run the test.  This discussion was held on r.g.c.p a while back.  And the _same_
>results were found.  Memory has 120ns latency no matter _what_ memory you
>use.  RDRAM is even slower in terms of latency.  If you can get your memory to
>sub-100ns latency, you've done a miracle in modern electronics.

I guess I'm sitting in front of one miraculous computer, then, because it can
randomly access a word in 75ns. Just ran the test. (RDRAM, BTW.)

If you have a 133MHz DIMM that's rated at 2-1-1-1, it can obviously access a
word in 15ns. If the system gets that word in 75ns (ignoring RDRAM vs. DIMM
latency for now) that means 20% of the latency is from the memory and 80% (not
"a tiny part") is from "shipping the data over the bus" (and through the
northbridge). Conventional wisdom says there's a 10ns wire/pin delay for a
signal going into or out of a chip, so into northbridge + out of northbridge +
into processor = 30ns. That means 30ns of processing is done on the northbridge
and processor. That's why everybody is so worked up about Hammer's on-die memory
controller--it reduces memory latency by, well, somewhere between 20 and 50ns,
or roughly 50%.

End of today's lecture...

-Tom



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