Author: Uri Blass
Date: 09:31:00 03/21/03
Go up one level in this thread
On March 21, 2003 at 11:35:04, Ferdinand S. Mosca wrote:
>On March 21, 2003 at 07:37:07, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On March 21, 2003 at 07:05:03, Ferdinand S. Mosca wrote:
>>
>>>On March 21, 2003 at 02:06:05, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 21, 2003 at 01:59:54, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I am too lazy to read the source code of the best free programs with source
>>>>>code(I may do it with Crafty but I do not think that I will do it for pepito(I
>>>>>read that it is written in spanish) and resp and other strong programs with
>>>>>source code.
>>>>>
>>>>>My question is how do they evaluate pawns(it means not only pawn structure but
>>>>>also subjects like pawn relative to the king and the fact that the king should
>>>>>not go always to the middle of the board in the endgame).
>>>>>
>>>>>I want to know before I decide exactly how to evaluate it in movei(It will
>>>>>probably not be the same as one of the programs but productive ideas may be
>>>>>taken from them).
>>>>>
>>>>>Can somebody explain the evaluation in words?
>>>>>Thanks in advance
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>I see that I forgot amy that is better than resp(there are probably other strong
>>>>programs with source code that I do not know).
>>>>
>>>>I want to know how many of them know for example that if in endgame all the
>>>>pawns are in a-b files then the a-b files are better than the g-h files for the
>>>>king(movei is at similiar level to resp but it does not know it).
>>>
>>>Why do the pawns in a and b files are more better if opponent castles queen
>>>side? Maybe I did not get your statement above.
>>
>>
>>I am talking about endgames
>>Here is a diagram
>>The only advantage of black is that the black king is in the a file and not in
>>the h file(you can see that the a and b files are better for the king than the g
>>and h files because all the pawns are in a-b files.
>
>This position is ridiculous :)
>Now put the black king in the a-file but put it in 8th rank, now what have you
>got?
If black begins black is winning
If white begins it is a draw.
Ysce is impressive
New game
k6K/8/pp6/8/8/PP6/8/8 b - - 0 1
Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:
1...Kb7
= (-0.14) Depth: 1 00:00:04
1...Kb7 2.Kg7
= (0.03) Depth: 2 00:00:04
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6
= (-0.17) Depth: 3 00:00:04
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf6
= (0.06) Depth: 4 00:00:04
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf6 Kd5
= (-0.13) Depth: 5 00:00:04
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf6 Kd5 4.b4
= (-0.06) Depth: 6 00:00:04
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf6 Kd5 4.b4 b5
= (-0.13) Depth: 7 00:00:04 1kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf6 Kd5 4.b4 b5 5.Kf5
= (-0.10) Depth: 8 00:00:04 2kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf6 Kd5 4.b4 b5 5.Kf5 Kd4
= (-0.13) Depth: 9 00:00:04 4kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf7 Kd5 4.Ke7 b5 5.b4
= (-0.06) Depth: 10 00:00:05 6kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf6 Kd6 4.b4 b5 5.Kf5 Kd5
= (-0.05) Depth: 11 00:00:06 13kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf6 Kd5 4.Ke7 a5 5.Kd8 b5 6.Kd7 b4 7.axb4
= (-0.24) Depth: 12 00:00:08 30kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc6 3.Kf6 Kd5 4.Ke7 a5 5.Kd8 b5 6.Kd7 b4 7.a4 Kd4
³ (-0.27) Depth: 13 00:00:09 42kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf6 Kd6 4.Kf7 a5 5.Kf8 Kd7 6.Kg7 Ke6 7.Kf8 b5 8.Ke8 b4
9.axb4 axb4
= (-0.24) Depth: 14 00:00:13 78kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf6 Kd6 4.Kf7 a5 5.Ke8 b5 6.Kf7 Kd7 7.a4 Kd6 8.Kf6 Kd5 9.Ke7
b4
= (-0.21) Depth: 15 00:00:14 92kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf6 Kd6 4.Kf7 a5 5.Ke8 b5 6.Kf7 b4 7.a4 Ke5 8.Ke7 Kd5 9.Kd7
Kd4 10.Kd6 Kc3 11.Kc7
= (-0.24) Depth: 16 00:00:15 110kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf6 Kd6 4.Kf7 a5 5.Ke8 b5 6.Kf7 b4 7.a4 Ke5 8.Ke7 Kd4 9.Kd6
Kc3 10.Kd5 Kxb3
= (-0.25) Depth: 17 00:00:17 141kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf6 Kd6 4.Kf7 a5 5.Ke8 b5 6.Kd8 b4 7.a4 Kd5 8.Kc7 Kc5 9.Kb7
Kd6 10.Kb6
³ (-0.26) Depth: 18 00:00:18 163kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kg6 Kd6 4.Kh7 b5 5.Kg7 b4 6.a4 Kd5 7.a5 Kc6 8.Kf6 Kb5 9.Ke5
Kc6 10.Ke6 Kb5 11.Kd5 Kxa5
µ (-1.12) Depth: 19 00:00:18 178kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kg6 Kd6 4.Kf7 a5 5.Ke8 b5 6.Kd8 b4 7.a4 Kd5 8.Kc7 Kd4 9.Kb6
Kc3 10.Ka6 Kxb3 11.Kxa5
-+ (-1.45) Depth: 19 00:00:20 207kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kg6 Kd6 4.Kf7 a5 5.Ke8 b5 6.Kd8 b4 7.a4 Kd5 8.Kc7 Kd4 9.Kb6
Kc3 10.Ka6 Kxb3 11.Kxa5 Kc4 12.Kb6 b3 13.a5 b2 14.Kc6 b1Q 15.Kd6 Qb4+ 16.Ke6
-+ (-1.45) Depth: 20 00:00:21 238kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kg8 Kc6 4.Kf7 Kd7 5.Kf6 Kd6 6.Kg6 Kc5 7.Kh6 Kd5 8.Kh7 b5
9.Kg7 Kd4 10.a4 bxa4 11.bxa4 Kc4 12.a5 Kb4 13.Kf6 Kxa5 14.Ke5 Ka4 15.Ke4 a5
16.Ke3
-+ (-#29) Depth: 21 00:00:21 239kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 21 00:00:41 350kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 26 00:00:46 552kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 29 00:00:48 715kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 31 00:00:49 839kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 32 00:00:49 904kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 34 00:00:50 1042kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 35 00:00:50 1113kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 37 00:00:51 1258kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 38 00:00:52 1333kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 40 00:00:53 1483kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 42 00:00:53 1639kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 43 00:00:53 1718kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 44 00:00:54 1799kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 46 00:00:54 1961kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 47 00:00:54 2043kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 48 00:00:55 2126kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 50 00:00:55 2294kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 51 00:00:55 2378kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 52 00:00:55 2463kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 53 00:00:56 2547kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 55 00:00:56 2717kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 56 00:00:56 2802kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 57 00:00:57 2887kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 59 00:00:57 3057kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 60 00:00:57 3142kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 61 00:00:58 3227kN
1...Kb7 2.Kg7 Kc7 3.Kf7 Kd7 4.Kf6 Kd6 5.Kf7 b5 6.Ke8 a5 7.Kd8 b4 8.a4 Ke5 9.Kc7
Kd4 10.Kb6 Kc3 11.Kxa5 Kxb3 12.Kb5 Kc3 13.a5 b3 14.a6 b2 15.a7 b1Q+ 16.Ka6
-+ (-#25) Depth: 62 00:00:58 3312kN
(Blass, Tel-Aviv 21.03.2003)
New game
k6K/8/pp6/8/8/PP6/8/8 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 1 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 2 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 3 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 6 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 7 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 8 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 10 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 11 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 12 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 13 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (0.00) Depth: 14 00:00:00
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4
= (-0.04) Depth: 15 00:00:00 3kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc5 4.Ke4 b5 5.Ke5 b4 6.a4 a5 7.Ke4 Kd6 8.Kd4 Ke6
= (-0.03) Depth: 16 00:00:01 5kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4
= (-0.03) Depth: 17 00:00:01 24kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 18 00:00:02 58kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 20 00:00:03 101kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 22 00:00:03 150kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 23 00:00:04 175kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 25 00:00:04 231kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 26 00:00:04 262kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 27 00:00:04 294kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 28 00:00:05 324kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 30 00:00:05 389kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 31 00:00:05 423kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 32 00:00:05 456kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 33 00:00:05 487kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 34 00:00:05 518kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 35 00:00:05 550kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 36 00:00:06 582kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 38 00:00:06 647kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 39 00:00:06 680kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 40 00:00:06 713kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 41 00:00:06 746kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 42 00:00:06 778kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 43 00:00:06 811kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 44 00:00:07 843kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 46 00:00:07 929kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 47 00:00:07 962kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 48 00:00:07 995kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 49 00:00:07 1029kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 50 00:00:07 1062kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 51 00:00:07 1096kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 52 00:00:07 1129kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 53 00:00:07 1163kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 54 00:00:08 1196kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 55 00:00:08 1230kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 57 00:00:08 1298kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 58 00:00:08 1343kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 59 00:00:08 1377kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 60 00:00:08 1410kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 61 00:00:08 1444kN
1.Kg7 Kb7 2.Kf6 Kc6 3.Ke6 Kc5 4.Ke5 a5 5.Ke4 Kd6 6.b4 a4 7.Kd4 b5 8.Ke4 Ke6
9.Kd4 Kd6
= (0.00) Depth: 62 00:00:08 1477kN
(Blass, Tel-Aviv 21.03.2003)
In other words it is not a matter on what file the king is located.
>
>>
>>A good program should see that black is better by static evaluation.
>>
>>[D]7K/8/pp6/8/8/PP6/8/k7 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I also think that it may be a good idea if someone writes a book that describe
>>>>the evaluation of the top free programs in a way that it is easy for humans to
>>>>understand it.
>>>
>>>As I have observed here, most programmers or maybe all of them shared their
>>>ideas not for other people but for natural programmers (basically).
>>
>>
>> The great Ed
>>>has come close, but still his intended audience are already those who knew
>>>programming (naturally).
>>
>>You do not understand.
>>
>>I am a programmer but it is more easy for programmers to understand explanation
>>like Ed's explanation and not source code of other programs.
>
>You missed the point, you have the source code, from it you learn ideas (you are
>a programmer), or you like ideas and no source code.
Yes
> Crafty's code by Bob is the
>best out there, it is well commented.
>
>>
>>Unfortunately Ed did not arrive to the part of pawn structure and passed pawns
>>in his programmer stuff.
>
>Don't count him out yet, he is coming :)... but pawn structure is already known,
>passed pawn is already known, what do you want more? are you not a chess player?
It is not relevant and the right formula is relevant.
>I believe what matters now is the efficiency/speed of the code.
No
I think that it is possible to have more correct knowledge and
evaluation of pawns-king may be memorized in the hash tables
so speed of evaluation should not be a problem.
>
>I guess you are looking for special cases end game, unfortunately this needs
>time and study, I suggest to put your ideas to test, from it you will learn and
>most of all your untested ideas will expand, then you test the untested ideas.
>
>>
>>I think that the way that Ed give the information is a way that is easy for
>>humans to understand.
>>
>>>
>>>I also believe that learning the hard way is more sweeter. Read, create, test,
>>>evaluate, back to reading, more reading.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Dinan
>>
>>I do not agree.
>>
>>Maybe it is fun for you to try to understand meaning of a code of another
>>program and to translate comments in spanish to a language that you understand
>>but it is more fun for me to understand the ideas directly in english.
>>
>>I can do things myself but I prefer to know first what other did.
>
>Understanding an idea is very different than when you implement it and see the
>effect of the idea, of course I am not talking of an obvious one. R=2, R=3, R=10
>try it and see/feel the effect deeply, you will learn more from it.
>
>>
>>I do not plan to copy source code of other because my data structure is
>>different.
>
>From source code we will learn.
>
>>
>>I also do not plan to copy the exact pawn structure evaluation of other because
>>I believe that I have good ideas that are not used by other people but I do not
>>want to miss the good ideas that are used by other people.
>
>Do you mean to say that your doubled pawn is different from the doubled pawn of
>other programs, your isolated pawn is different from others, your backward pawn
>is different? there's nothing to research more on pawn structure, special cases
>of middle game or end game cases are the keys now.
I have some additional ideas that I may add to the existing ideas.
Today it is inferior than other programs
but I hope that in the future it will be superior.
>
>Let me give you a simple idea in end game, in endings passers are very
>important, because of this try to study histories of a passer, where did the
>passers came from? how they are created? from it you will be able to create
>general ideas on pawn structure. Now why isolated pawn is weak, because it is
>not a good candidate to create a candidate passer, a passer is coming from a
>candidate passer.
>
>Regards,
>Dinan
I disagree with the rule that passed pawns are strong.
passers may be a weakness and there are examples when programs were
happy to create a passed pawn and the passed pawn got a lost position.
Hiarcs did not lose the game but you can see that the passed pawn was
a weakness and not an advantage in the following game and smirin could win the
pawn by 38...hxg4 39.hxg4 f4 and 40...Ne8.
The advantage probably was not enough to win but an intelligent program should
not create the passed pawn in the first place.
[Event "Level=Blitz:60'+10"]
[Site "KC"]
[Date "2002.04.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hiarcs 8"]
[Black "Smirin"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E92"]
[WhiteElo "39"]
[BlackElo "39"]
[PlyCount "79"]
[EventDate "2002.03.11"]
{128MB, smirin.ctg. ANNA} 1. d4 {0} Nf6 {0} 2. c4 {0} g6 {0} 3. Nc3 {0} Bg7 {0}
4. e4 {0} d6 {0} 5. Nf3 {0} O-O {0} 6. Be2 {0} e5 {0} 7. dxe5 {0} dxe5 {0} 8.
Qxd8 {0} Rxd8 {0} 9. Bg5 {0} Re8 {0} 10. Nd5 {0} Nxd5 {0} 11. cxd5 {0} c6 {0}
12. Bc4 {0} b5 {0} 13. Bb3 {0.24/13 275} a5 {0} 14. a4 {0.16/12 162} Bd7 {0}
15. Nd2 {0.13/12 81} bxa4 {0} 16. Bxa4 {0.13/13 0} cxd5 {0} 17. exd5 {
0.12/13 47} Bxa4 {0} 18. Rxa4 {0.12/14 0} Nd7 {0} 19. Be3 {-0.01/13 0} Bf8 {0}
20. Nc4 {0.01/13 142} Bb4+ {0} 21. Ke2 {0.11/12 81} Rec8 {0} 22. b3 {0.08/12 60
} Rab8 {0} 23. Nxa5 {0.54/11 99} Bxa5 {0} 24. Rxa5 {0.50/12 48} Rxb3 {0} 25.
Rd1 {0.51/12 43} Kf8 {0} 26. d6 {0.55/11 67} Rb7 {0} 27. Rc1 {0.51/11 132} Rxc1
{0} 28. Ra8+ {0.45/13 21} Rb8 {0} 29. Rxb8+ {0.43/13 99} Nxb8 {0} 30. Bxc1 {
0.41/13 41} Ke8 {0} 31. Kd3 {0.34/13 58} Kd7 {0} 32. Ba3 {-0.31/14 273} f5 {0}
33. g3 {-0.49/14 219} g5 {0} 34. h3 {0.00/13 86} h5 {0} 35. Kc4 {-0.13/13 95}
Kc6 {0} 36. Kd3 {-0.31/14 61} Nd7 {0} 37. f3 {-0.38/13 42} Nf6 {0} 38. g4 {
-0.91/13 4} fxg4 {0} 39. fxg4 {-0.01/12 29} hxg4 {0} 40. hxg4 {-0.01/13 0}
1/2-1/2
Uri
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