Author: Frank Phillips
Date: 10:09:00 03/23/03
Go up one level in this thread
On March 23, 2003 at 11:51:52, Peter Berger wrote: >On March 23, 2003 at 04:17:22, Frank Phillips wrote: > >>On March 23, 2003 at 02:38:31, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On March 22, 2003 at 23:15:19, Lyn Harper wrote: >>> >>>>On March 22, 2003 at 13:17:48, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On March 22, 2003 at 13:16:46, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>><snipped> >>>>>>The only reason to make them weaker relative to humans is simply to change the >>>>>>rules of the game. >>>>> >>>>>Should be the only way to nake them... >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>> >>>I see that I made a mistake in my correction (make and not nake) >>> >>>> >>>> But is'nt this just inventing ways to delay the inevitable? The programs are >>>>just getting stronger while the humans are'nt. Accept it. >>> >>>If you change the rules humans will be relatively stronger and after the delay >>>you can change the rules again. >>> >>>I think that humans also can learn to be stronger in normal chess thanks to >>>computers. >>> >>>I agree that in every static game computers are going to win after enough time >>>and this is exactly the reason to change the rules. >>> >>>Uri >> >> >>So we have a game the rules of which are that humans must be able to >>win....bizarre. >> >> >>Frank > >Why is that bizarre? It's just a little early now but some day some kind of >rules will be needed to make man-machine matches interesting as the silicon will >be too strong for equal competition. > >Obviously there are two ways this can be done: > >a.) limitting the computer power and ressources > >I like this approach most. Will there be a day when a program on a current >Pocket PC or Palm can compete with human top players? That's a very long way to >go still. > >b.) adapting the rules > >Maybe the easy and old approach of playing with uneven material is nicest here. >That's a little similar to Go. How long until a program can win against top >players with a knight less? Again this might take some time to achieve. > >In five or ten years man-machine matches with current rules will be useless IMHO >but the principle setup is fun and interests the public. > >Peter I guess I had in mind that it would not be chess. You are inventing a new game of give the human a chance (or is it over the board analysis?). Seems like GK playing me with Q odds. If I win, what does it prove? And who would want to watch. When machines are better, then we will have to move on or watch machines. It will be just another area were man as tool maker has triumphed over man. For me the interesting time is now, while there is still doubt about who is best - and indeed whether a machine can ever be better. Frank Maybe we could attach great big weights to cars and race them in the 100m. Or fit a steam shovel with a tea spoon and see if a man with a spade can dig a hole faster ;-)
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