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Subject: Re: Why can't Fritz count?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 05:28:10 10/08/98

Go up one level in this thread


On October 08, 1998 at 04:35:57, blass uri wrote:

>
>On October 08, 1998 at 04:28:13, Kai Lübke wrote:
>
>>On October 08, 1998 at 02:03:56, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On October 07, 1998 at 23:33:53, James T. Walker wrote:
>>>
>>>>I gave Fritz 5.16 a position /p4K/P////k// W.  I think that I have that figured
>>>>out right.  Anyway, Fritz announces #14 after about 16 sec.  But when you go
>>>>through the moves it announces #13 twice, #10 twice,#8 followed by #9 etc.  It
>>>>jumps from #6 to #4 no matter what move I make in that position.  After that it
>>>>counts on down to mate properly.  It ends up with about a mate in 17.  What
>>>>causes this phenom ?  Crafty with the same position announces #17 on the first
>>>>move then while pondering it finds mate in 15.  After that it counts down by one
>>>>to mate.  That seems fairly normal.
>>>>Jim
>>>
>>>Fritz never knew to count
>>>It was designed to play chess and not to count the number of moves to mate
>>>
>>>I think that this is because of hash tables
>>>Maybe fritz found that some position leads to mate and remember it in the hash
>>>tables as mate without the number of moves
>>>
>>>After it go to the same position again in the search it evaluates it as
>>>checkmate without number of moves and this is the reason that it cannot count
>>
>>The "mate in 8, then on the next move mate in 9" stuff is something you often
>>see in Fritz engines (Hiarcs and Junior have the same problems sometimes).
>>Crafty has a special code that assures that a "mate in N" is never followed by
>>a "mate in N+k" where k>=0.
>>I'm just waiting for someone to find a position where Fritz will not be able to
>>mate because of this... :-)
>>
>>---
>>Shep
>
>The main problem with fritz is that often the mate in N is only an illusion of
>fritz.
>
>It is a bad idea to use a special code for fritz telling it to look after mate
>in N only for mate in N-1 or less before solving this problem because the result
>may be: no mate found.
>
>Uri


I don't believe that fritz is ever *wrong* when it announces a mate.  It might
say mate in 10 when there is a mate in 6 that can be played.  But I have *never*
seen a program announce mate in N when there is no mate there, unless it is a
new program with bugs.

But *if* you find a mate in N, after your opponent plays a move, it will not
hurt a thing to search until you find a mate in N-1...  even if you can't find
it time will stop you eventually, and in 99.99% of the times the N-1 mate is
there and can be found within the time limit...



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