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Subject: Re: I think my solution is practical

Author: blass uri

Date: 12:27:35 10/09/98

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On October 09, 1998 at 15:22:05, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On October 09, 1998 at 12:08:18, blass uri wrote:
>
>>
>>On October 09, 1998 at 11:58:37, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On October 09, 1998 at 10:37:29, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On October 09, 1998 at 10:25:28, blass uri wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On October 09, 1998 at 09:56:20, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 09, 1998 at 09:35:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 09, 1998 at 08:54:02, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On October 09, 1998 at 08:10:51, blass uri wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I think it is better to store the number of moves to win in the tablebases only
>>>>>>>>>if this number is divisible by 2 because otherwise you can compute the number of
>>>>>>>>>moves by search.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Maybe it is possible practically to store it only if it is divisble by 3 or 4 (I
>>>>>>>>>do not know what is the speed of reading the tablebases from harddisk)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>>I think it is easy to save at least 1 bit per position by this idea if in
>>>>>>>>positions when there is win in N when N is divisible by 2 you store win in N/2
>>>>>>>>and in positions when there is a win in N when N is not divisible by 2 you store
>>>>>>>>a win in 1(you can discover by search that it is not truth).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>this is imposible to do.  KNN vs KP is a mate in over 100 moves.  How do
>>>>>>>I separate mate in 50 from mate in 100?  I certainly can't search to find
>>>>>>>this out...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I mean that when you store the number N/2 you mean win in N
>>>>>>
>>>>>>you have only to search 2 plies because if you have mate in 99
>>>>>mate in 99 is not a good example because of the 50 move rule but
>>>>>I understand that there is a problem here because the opponent may do a move
>>>>>that let you only to do mates in an odd number of moves  so  2 plies cannot help
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>you can store mate in N by the number N/2 or N-1/2
>>>
>>>
>>>of course I mean (N-1)/2 iand not N-1/2
>>>I choose N/2 if N is even and (N-1)/2 if N is odd
>>>if 2 plies search are not enough than 4 plies are enough
>>>the number of times you should call the tablebases if you have a good order of
>>>moves is something like 1000
>>>I do not know the time that you need for it
>>
>>I think it is less than 1000 because practically for moves that are not best you
>>usually discover it after 2 plies and usually there are not many best moves
>>so I do not see a reason it is not practical
>>
>>Uri
>>
>
>
>you really only have to probe the databases *after* a capture, because before
>the capture is made, you already *know* the mate-in-N score if you start off in
>a 3-4-5 piece ending.  If you start off in a 6 piece ending, there is no need
>to probe until after one capture, and at that point you get an exact distance
>to mate and won't search any moves below that capture at all...

My idea is that you have less information in the tablebases and then you have to
search in a 3-4-5 piece ending but not much only to improve the score
from mate in N-1 or N to mate in N-2 or N-3

Uri
>
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>> and find by search the right
>>>>move
>>>>you need all the time to decrease the  number
>>>>I think that you have to compute sometimes 4 plies forward but if you fast
>>>>enough in reading the tablebases then it can help
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the tablebases will tell you the number 1
>>>>>>You know by search that there is no mate in 2  but you have in the tablebase
>>>>>>mates in 98 so by  searching 2 plies you can read from the tablebases the mate
>>>>>>in 98 after 2 plies.
>>>>>>Searching 2 plies and reading the tablebases after every 2 possible plies(you do
>>>>>>not need every 2 possible because of the alpha beta  is not impossible
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>By this idea you can use the same number of bits to every position.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If you want to use different number of bits to every popsition you must add 1
>>>>>>>>bit
>>>>>>>>to tell if the is a position with win in number of moves divisible by 2 or not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>of course if you lose it is not important to know the number of moves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I use the word win and not mate because it is a mistake to use mate
>>>>>>>>because of the 50 move rule
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>distance to conversion has the same 50-move problem...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>why?
>>>>>>If the distance is more than 50 then you know it is a draw.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri



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