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Subject: Re: Why can't Shredder 7 solve this simple endgame position?

Author: Helmut Conrady

Date: 09:41:51 04/05/03

Go up one level in this thread


On April 05, 2003 at 08:52:09, Uri Blass wrote:

>On April 05, 2003 at 08:43:29, Helmut Conrady wrote:
>
>>On April 03, 2003 at 21:05:11, Mike S. wrote:
>>
>>>On April 03, 2003 at 07:56:04, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>
>>>>[D]8/8/8/5bk1/8/8/4B1PP/5K2 b - -
>>>>S7 don't find -Bh3 in 10 minutes. Why???? I don't have full 5 piece TBs for
>>>>sure, but most amateurs find move even without (any) TBs.
>>>
>>>Shredder 7.SE (in-between version between 7/7.04) also doesn's seem to find
>>>Bh5(Lh5), when all pieces are moved 2 ranks upwards:
>>>
>>>[D]8/5bk1/8/8/4B1PP/5K2/8/8 b - - 0 1
>>
>>Try Shredder 7.04. The wrong bishop motiv has been improved especially in this
>>version. S 7.04 shows with or without Tbs 0.00 at once.
>>
>>Helmut
>
>I guess that I am blind because I cannot see the 0.00 at least under chesbase
>interface(I did not try it under the UCI interface).
>
>I did not use most of the tablebases but it is no convincing excuse if it has
>the knowledge.
>
>New game
>[D]8/5bk1/8/8/4B1PP/5K2/8/8 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Shredder 7.04:
>
>1...Bd5 2.Bxd5
>  +-  (5.99)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>1...Bd5 2.Bxd5
>  +-  (6.59)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>1...Bd5 2.Bxd5
>  +-  (5.38)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>1...Kh6
>  +-  (2.52)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>1...Kh6
>  +-  (2.52)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
>1...Kh6 2.Ke3
>  +-  (2.96)   Depth: 2/2   00:00:00
>1...Kh6 2.Bg6
>  +-  (2.96)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.g6
>  +-  (2.66)   Depth: 3/5   00:00:00
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Bh7
>  +-  (2.50)   Depth: 3/5   00:00:00
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Bg6
>  +-  (2.77)   Depth: 4/7   00:00:00
>1...Kh6 2.Bd3 Be6 3.Bb5
>  +-  (2.92)   Depth: 4/7   00:00:00
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Be8 4.Kf4
>  +-  (2.84)   Depth: 5/9   00:00:00
>1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Bg6
>  +-  (3.09)   Depth: 6/10   00:00:00  4kN
>1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Be6 3.Bf5 Bd5 4.Ke5
>  +-  (3.10)   Depth: 6/10   00:00:00  5kN
>1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Bg8 3.Bf3 Bc4 4.g5+ Kg6
>  +-  (3.15)   Depth: 7/11   00:00:00  11kN
>1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Be6 3.g5+ Kh5 4.Bc6
>  +-  (2.90)   Depth: 8/11   00:00:00  23kN
>1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Be6 3.Bf5 Bg8 4.Ke3 Bc4 5.Kd2
>  +-  (2.83)   Depth: 8/11   00:00:00  26kN
>1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Bd5
>  +-  (3.08)   Depth: 9/11   00:00:00  30kN
>1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Be6 3.Bf5 Bf7 4.Ke5 Bh5 5.Kf6 Be8
>  +-  (3.16)   Depth: 9/13   00:00:00  50kN
>1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Be6 3.Bf5 Bf7 4.Bd7 Bh5 5.g5+ Kg7 6.Be6
>  +-  (3.11)   Depth: 10/14   00:00:01  84kN
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Bg8 4.Bf3+ Kg6 5.Bc6
>  +-  (3.03)   Depth: 11/19   00:00:01  139kN
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Bg8 4.Bc6 Kg6 5.Be8+ Kg7 6.Kf4 Kh7 7.Ke5 Kg7 8.Bd7
>  +-  (3.28)   Depth: 12/19   00:00:01  169kN
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Bg8 4.Bc6 Kg6 5.Be8+ Kh7 6.h5 Bc4 7.Bg6+ Kg7 8.Kh3
>  +-  (3.32)   Depth: 12/19   00:00:02  200kN
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Bd5 4.Bxd5 Kg6
>  +-  (3.57)   Depth: 13/19   00:00:02  355kN
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Be6 4.Bc6 Kg6 5.Be8+ Kh7 6.h5
>  +-  (3.57)   Depth: 13/19   00:00:03  408kN
>1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Be6 3.Bf3
>  +-  (3.57)   Depth: 14/23   00:00:04  681kN
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Be6
>  +-  (3.82)   Depth: 15/23   00:00:05  913kN
>1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Be6 4.Bf3+ Kg6 5.Kf4 Kf7 6.h5 Kg7
>  +-  (3.86)   Depth: 15/23   00:00:06  1124kN
>1...Bc4 2.Kf4 Bb3 3.g5 Bd1 4.Ke5
>  +-  (3.85)   Depth: 15/23   00:00:07  1500kN
>1...Bc4 2.g5 Ba2 3.Kf4 Kg8 4.h5 Kf8
>  +-  (3.85)   Depth: 15/23   00:00:08  1686kN
>1...Be8 2.g5 Kg8 3.Kf4 Kh8 4.Bf3
>  +-  (3.84)   Depth: 15/23   00:00:10  2231kN
>1...Be8 2.g5 Kg8 3.Kf4 Kh8 4.Bf3 Ba4
>  +-  (3.84)   Depth: 15/23   00:00:10  2235kN
>1...Be8 2.g5 Kg8 3.Kf4 Kh8 4.Bf3 Kg7 5.h5 Bf7 6.h6+ Kh8 7.Be4 Be8
>  +-  (3.87)   Depth: 16/23   00:00:12  2570kN
>1...Be8 2.g5 Kg8 3.Kf4 Kh8 4.Bf3
>  +-  (3.87)   Depth: 17/23   00:00:14  2966kN
>1...Be8 2.g5 Kg8 3.Kf4 Kh8 4.Bf3
>  +-  (3.87)   Depth: 18/23   00:00:15  3348kN
>1...Be8 2.g5 Kg8 3.Kg4 Kg7 4.h5 Kg8
>  +-  (4.12)   Depth: 19/27   00:00:20  4684kN
>1...Be8 2.g5 Kg8 3.Kg3 Bh5 4.Kf4 Bd1 5.Bf3 Ba4 6.h5 Bb3
>  +-  (4.13)   Depth: 19/27   00:00:27  6631kN
>1...Be8 2.g5 Kg8 3.Kf4 Bf7 4.Bf3 Kh7
>  +-  (4.24)   Depth: 20/29   00:00:39  10190kN
>
>(Blass, Tel-Aviv 05.04.2003)
>
>Uri

Maybe Shredder likes German air more than that in Israel? :))

Here is my Shredder 7.04 output:

Neue Partie
8/5bk1/8/8/4B1PP/5K2/8/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Shredder 7.04:

1...Ld5 2.Lxd5
  +-  (5.99)   Tiefe: 1/2   00:00:00
1...Ld5 2.Lxd5
  +-  (6.59)   Tiefe: 1/2   00:00:00
1...Ld5 2.Lxd5
  +-  (5.38)   Tiefe: 1/2   00:00:00
1...Kh6
  +-  (2.52)   Tiefe: 1/2   00:00:00
1...Kh6
  +-  (2.52)   Tiefe: 1/2   00:00:00
1...Kh6 2.Ke3
  +-  (2.96)   Tiefe: 2/2   00:00:00
1...Kh6 2.Lg6
  +-  (2.96)   Tiefe: 2/4   00:00:00
1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.g6
  +-  (2.66)   Tiefe: 3/5   00:00:00
1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Lh7
  +-  (2.50)   Tiefe: 3/5   00:00:00
1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Lg6
  +-  (2.77)   Tiefe: 4/7   00:00:00
1...Kh6 2.Ld3 Le6 3.Lb5
  +-  (2.92)   Tiefe: 4/7   00:00:00
1...Kh6 2.g5+ Kh5 3.Kg3 Le8 4.Kf4
  +-  (2.84)   Tiefe: 5/9   00:00:00
1...Kh6 2.Kf4 Lh5 3.g5+ Kg7
  +-  (3.09)   Tiefe: 6/11   00:00:00
1...Kh6 2.Lc6
  +-  (3.09)   Tiefe: 6/11   00:00:00
1...Lh5 2.Ke3
  +-  (3.08)   Tiefe: 6/11   00:00:00
1...Lh5 2.Lh7
  +-  (2.73)   Tiefe: 6/11   00:00:00
1...Lh5 2.Lh7 Lxg4+ 3.Kf2 Kh6 4.Ke1 Kxh7
  =  (0.02)   Tiefe: 6/11   00:00:00
1...Lh5 2.Lh7 Lxg4+ 3.Kf2 Kh6 4.Ke1 Lh3 5.h5
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 7/11   00:00:00  23kN
1...Lh5 2.Lh7 Lxg4+ 3.Kf2 Kh6 4.Ke1 Lh3 5.h5 Kxh7
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 8/10   00:00:00  29kN
1...Lh5 2.Lh7 Lxg4+ 3.Kf2 Kh6 4.h5 Lf3 5.Kxf3 Kxh7 6.Kf4 Kg8
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 9/11   00:00:00  40kN
1...Lh5 2.Lh7 Lxg4+ 3.Kf2 Kh6 4.h5 Lf3 5.Kxf3 Kxh7 6.Kf4 Kg8 7.Ke4
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 10/13   00:00:00  57kN
1...Lh5 2.Lh7 Lxg4+ 3.Kf2 Kh6 4.h5 Lf3 5.Kxf3 Kxh7 6.Kf4 Kg8 7.Ke4 Kg7
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 11/13   00:00:00  71kN
1...Lh5 2.Lh7 Lxg4+ 3.Kf2 Kh6 4.h5 Lf3 5.Kxf3 Kxh7 6.Kf4 Kg8 7.Ke4 Kg7 8.Kf3 Kh6
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 12/15   00:00:00  91kN
1...Lh5 2.Lh7 Lxg4+ 3.Kf2 Kh6 4.h5 Lf3 5.Kxf3 Kxh7 6.Kf4 Kg8 7.Ke4 Kg7 8.Kf3 Kh6
9.Kf4 Kxh5
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 13/15   00:00:00  126kN
1...Lh5 2.Lh7 Lxg4+ 3.Kf2 Kxh7 4.Kg3 Le2
  =  (-0.01)   Tiefe: 14/17   00:00:00  165kN
1...Lh5 2.Ke3 Lxg4 3.Kf4 Kh6 4.Lf3
  =  (0.01)   Tiefe: 15/19   00:00:00  295kN
1...Lh5 2.Kf4 Lxg4 3.Ke3 Le2 4.Lf3
  =  (0.01)   Tiefe: 16/21   00:00:01  441kN
1...Lh5 2.Ke3 Lxg4 3.Kf4 Le2 4.Lf3 Kh8 5.Ke3
  =  (0.01)   Tiefe: 17/20   00:00:01  569kN
1...Lh5 2.Ke3 Lxg4 3.Kf4 Le2 4.Lf3 Kh8 5.Ke3 Kg8
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 18/21   00:00:01  747kN
1...Lh5 2.Ke3 Lxg4 3.Kf4 Le2 4.Lf3 Kh8 5.Ke3 Kg8 6.Kxe2 Kh8 7.h5 Kg8 8.Le4
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 19/21   00:00:02  1233kN
1...Lh5 2.Ke3 Lxg4 3.Kf4 Le2 4.Lf3 Kh8 5.Ke3 Kg8 6.Kxe2 Kh8 7.h5 Kg8 8.Le4 Kg7
9.Lf3 Kh8 10.h6 Kg8 11.Le4 Kh8
  =  (0.00)   Tiefe: 20/23   00:00:03  1526kN
1...Lh5 2.Lc2 Kg8 3.Ke3 Lxg4 4.Kd4 Kh8 5.La4
  =  (0.05)   Tiefe: 21/27   00:00:06  3728kN
1...Lh5 2.Kf4 Lxg4 3.Ke5 Kh6 4.Lf3 Lxf3 5.Kf6
  =  (0.06)   Tiefe: 22/25   00:00:09  6011kN

(Conrady, Muennerstadt 05.04.2003)


Helmut



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