Author: Jorge Pichard
Date: 15:44:03 04/05/03
Go up one level in this thread
On April 05, 2003 at 18:32:11, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>On April 05, 2003 at 17:52:03, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On April 05, 2003 at 17:26:30, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>
>>>On April 05, 2003 at 17:14:04, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 16:32:11, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 15:21:54, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 13:12:31, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 11:33:01, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 11:00:50, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 10:53:38, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 10:30:03, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On April 05, 2003 at 09:41:33, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>This position taken from a game considered by Alekhine to be one of his best two
>>>>>>>>>>>>games ever played.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Baden-Baden Tournament, May 1925.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>White: R. Reti Black Alekhine:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>In this position Alekhine wrote " It seems almost incredible that this
>>>>>>>>>>>>spectacular move not only stops White's attack but even brings him serious
>>>>>>>>>>>>trouble". The only reason why Reti got into trouble was because he chose 27.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Kt-B3?!
>>>>>>>>>>>>Alekhine wrote " It is obvious enough that the Rook can't be taken because of
>>>>>>>>>>>>27....QxP+. followed by 28.....KtxP and wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The move found by Alekhine 26....R-K6! is a great challenge for most top
>>>>>>>>>>>>programs, since I have NOT found any programs that will select this move.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>[D]r3r1k1/1pq2pp1/2p2n2/1PNn4/2QN2b1/6P1/3RPP2/2R3KB b - - 0 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>This is what Fritz 8 plays after:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>1... Re6 2. bxc6 Re5 {[%emt 0:03:03]} 3. cxb7 {[%emt 0:01:40]} Rb8 {
>>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:02:53]} 4. Ndb3 {[%emt 0:02:04]} Rxb7 {[%emt 0:04:25]} 5. Bxd5 {
>>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:00:51]} Rb6 {(Rb8) [%emt 0:02:59]} 6. Bg2 {[%emt 0:02:29]} Re8 {
>>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:04:54]} 7. Nd4 {(e4) [%emt 0:02:59]} Qe5 {[%emt 0:04:05]} 8. Qa4 {
>>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:04:10]} Qb8 {(Qh5) [%emt 0:04:07]} 9. Nc6 {[%emt 0:02:51]} Rb1 {
>>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:03:22]} 10. Nxb8 {[%emt 0:02:11]} Rxc1+ {[%emt 0:00:29]} 11. Rd1 {
>>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:02:36]} Rxc5 {[%emt 0:01:02]} 12. Na6 {[%emt 0:02:11]} Rc3 {
>>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:01:53]} 13. f3 {[%emt 0:02:25]} Be6 {[%emt 0:01:47]} 14. Qa5 {
>>>>>>>>>>[%emt 0:02:55]} *
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And here is the Position after 14 more moves, White is obviously winning:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>[d}4r1k1/5pp1/N3bn2/Q7/8/2r2PP1/4P1B1/3R2K1 b - - 0 14
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Here is the other brillian game considered by Alekhine to be his best two games
>>>>>>>>>>>>ever played.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.geocities.com/lifemasteraj/bogo-alek1.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>You have not tested enough programs with enough time. There are several engines
>>>>>>>>>>>to find the nice ... Re3 move. Junior7 and Gambit Tiger 2 belong to those
>>>>>>>>>>>programs which only need some seconds. The solving time of other engines can be
>>>>>>>>>>>found at http://www.computerschach.de/test/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>r3r1k1/1pq2pp1/2p2n2/1PNn4/2QN2b1/6P1/3RPP2/2R3KB b - - 0 1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Analysis by Junior 7:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>1...cxb5 2.Nxb5 Qa5 3.Rxd5
>>>>>>>>>>> ± (0.84) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>>>>>>>>>1...Ne3 2.Qd3 Ned5
>>>>>>>>>>> ³ (-0.38) Depth: 6 00:00:00 10kN
>>>>>>>>>>> = (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:00 191kN
>>>>>>>>>>>1...Bh3 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Nxc6 Qxc6 4.Rxd5 Nxd5 5.Bxd5 Qf6 6.Ne4 Qf5 7.Bxa8 Rxa8
>>>>>>>>>>> = (-0.20) Depth: 9 00:00:00 233kN
>>>>>>>>>>> = (0.20) Depth: 12 00:00:02 2107kN
>>>>>>>>>>>1...Re3 2.Bf3 Bxf3 3.exf3 Rea3 4.Re2 Ra1 5.Ree1 Rxc1 6.Qxc1
>>>>>>>>>>> = (0.09) Depth: 12 00:00:10 10268kN
>>>>>>>>>>> = (-0.15) Depth: 14 00:00:32 32309kN
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 05.04.2003)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Reti - Aljechin
>>>>>>>>>>>r3r1k1/1pq2pp1/2p2n2/1PNn4/2QN2b1/6P1/3RPP2/2R3KB b - - 0 1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Analysis by Gambit Tiger 2.0:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>1...Ra3 2.Rd3 Rxd3 3.Nxd3 Nb6 4.Qc2 Qd6 5.e3 cxb5 6.Nxb5 Qe7
>>>>>>>>>>> ² (0.28) Depth: 7 00:00:00 135kN
>>>>>>>>>>> ² (0.34) Depth: 9 00:00:04 1381kN
>>>>>>>>>>>1...Re3 2.Bf3 Bxf3 3.exf3 Rea3 4.bxc6 bxc6 5.Rb2 Nb6 6.Qe2 Re8 7.Qf1 Re5
>>>>>>>>>>> = (0.14) Depth: 9 00:00:07 2270kN
>>>>>>>>>>> = (-0.06) Depth: 12 00:00:36 11847kN
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>(Utzinger, MyTown 05.04.2003)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>What kind of Analysis did you run: Infinite Analysis, Full Analysis, or Deep
>>>>>>>>>>Position Analysis ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Pichard
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Jorge
>>>>>>>>> I used "Infinite Analysis" [Alt F2] on P4 1.8/32 MB hash
>>>>>>>>> Kurt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sorry I was using the wrong Analysis:New game
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Analysis by Fritz 8:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1...Re3 2.Bg2 Bh3 3.Bf3 Rea3 4.bxc6 bxc6 5.Ncb3 R8a4 6.Qc5 Qb6 7.Qxb6
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ± (0.78) Depth: 14/42 00:23:05 791528kN
>>>>>>1...Ra3 2.Ncb3 Qb6 3.Rb2 Ne7 4.Rcb1 cxb5 5.Qxb5 Qxb5 6.Nxb5 Ra4
>>>>>> ± (0.75) Depth: 14/42 00:36:53 1280447kN
>>>>>> ± (0.78) Depth: 15/43 01:09:00 2416013kN
>>>>>>1...Re3 2.Bg2 Rxg3 3.e3 Rxg2+ 4.Kxg2 Qe5 5.bxc6 Qh5 6.Kg1
>>>>>> ± (0.75) Depth: 15/43 01:18:17 2750122kN
>>>>>> ² (0.31) Depth: 16/47 03:46:07 8017463kN
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Pichard, MyTown 05.04.2003)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2.Bg2?! Rxg3! and black has some chances after the forced 3.e3.
>>>>>>>3...Qe5 for example.
>>>>>>>2.Bf3 and 2.Kh2 are better moves.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I found this Analysis by Alekhine on his book my best games of Chess, he Wrote:
>>>>>"the only chance of salvation was 2.B-B3!, BxB 3.PxB!, PxP; 4.KtxP, Q-QR4!
>>>>>still with advantage for Black, as 5.RxKt? would lose immediately after 5....
>>>>>R-K8 ch; 6.RxR, QxR ch followed by 7.R-R8
>>>>>
>>>>>Pichard
>>>>
>>>>He was wrong. 8.Rd8+ Kh7 9.Qh4+ Kg6 10.f4! +-.
>>>>
>>>>Kasparov wrote:
>>>>Alas Alekhine's original attempt to complicate the position could have been met
>>>>by simply 27.Bf3 Bxf3 28.exf3 ending Black's activity.
>>>>
>>>>Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't Agree, Fritz 8 or any other top Program could force a draw against
>>>Kasparov with 27.Bf3
>
>1... Re3 2. Bf3 Bxf3 3. exf3 cxb5 4. Nxb5 Qa5 5. Rdd1 {
>[%eval 34,12] [%emt 0:00:46]} Re7 {[%eval 34,12] [%emt 0:00:48]} 6. Ne4 {
>(Nd6) [%eval 47,12] [%emt 0:01:05]} Nxe4 {[%eval 41,12] [%emt 0:00:47]} 7. fxe4
>{[%eval 41,12] [%emt 0:00:12]} Nf6 {[%eval 53,12] [%emt 0:00:42]} 8. f3 {
>[%eval 53,12] [%emt 0:01:08]} Re6 {[%eval 53,11] [%emt 0:00:37]} 9. Rb1 {
>[%eval 53,12] [%emt 0:00:59]} Ne8 {(Rd8) [%eval 53,11] [%emt 0:00:35]} 10. Qc3
>{[%eval 53,12] [%emt 0:00:46]} Rb6 {(Qxc3) [%eval 59,12] [%emt 0:00:29]} 11.
>Qxa5 {[%eval 53,13] [%emt 0:00:40]} Rxa5 {[%eval 41,14] [%emt 0:00:13]} 12. Nd4
>{(Nc3) [%eval 34,15] [%emt 0:01:01]} Rxb1 {[%eval 37,14] [%emt 0:00:26]} 13.
>Rxb1 {[%eval 38,13] [%emt 0:00:07]} Nd6 {[%eval 37,14] [%emt 0:00:37]} 14. Kf2
>{[%eval 31,12] [%emt 0:00:23]} Kf8 {[%eval 37,13] [%emt 0:00:43]} 15. Ke2 {
>[%eval 41,13] [%emt 0:00:24]} g6 {[%eval 37,13] [%emt 0:00:42]} 16. g4 {
>[%eval 44,13] [%emt 0:00:47]} Ke7 {(f5) [%eval 37,13] [%emt 0:00:57]} 17. Kd3 {
>[%eval 34,13] [%emt 0:01:03]} f5 {[%eval 31,13] [%emt 0:00:50]} 18. exf5 {
>[%eval 31,12] [%emt 0:00:33]} gxf5 {[%eval 31,12] [%emt 0:00:20]} 19. Nxf5+ {
>[%eval 34,12] [%emt 0:00:25]} Nxf5 {[%eval 28,15] [%emt 0:00:41]} 20. Rxb7+ {
>[%eval 28,13] [%emt 0:00:11]} Ke6 {(Kf6) [%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:42]} 21.
>gxf5+ {[%eval 31,15] [%emt 0:00:16]} Kxf5 {[%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:37]} 22.
>Rf7+ {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:35]} Kg5 {[%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:25]} 23. Ke4
>{(f4+) [%eval 28,15] [%emt 0:00:18]} Ra4+ {[%eval 28,15] [%emt 0:00:18]} 24.
>Ke3 {[%eval 34,16] [%emt 0:01:03]} Ra3+ {[%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:22]} 25. Kf2
>{(Kd4) [%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:24]} Kg6 {[%eval 34,15] [%emt 0:00:20]} 26. Rf8
>{[%eval 34,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} Kg5 {(Rc3) [%eval 34,15] [%emt 0:00:21]} 27. Kg3
>{[%eval 34,14] [%emt 0:00:19]} Ra1 {[%eval 34,16] [%emt 0:00:21]} 28. f4+ {
>[%eval 31,15] [%emt 0:00:14]} Kg6 {[%eval 28,17] [%emt 0:00:39]} 29. Kg4 {
>[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:22]} Rg1+ {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:16]} 30. Kf3 {
>[%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:15]} Kg7 {(Re1) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:18]} 31. Ra8
>{(Rb8) [%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:17]} Kf6 {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:17]} 32. Rc8
>{(Kf2) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:22]} Rf1+ {[%eval 31,16] [%emt 0:00:21]} 33.
>Ke3 {[%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:13]} Re1+ {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:21]} 34. Kf2
>{[%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:18]} Rb1 {(Rh1) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:16]} 35. Rc5
>{[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:16]} Rb3 {(Ra1) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} 36. Rg5
>{(Ke2) [%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:18]} Ra3 {(Rb1) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:14]}
>37. Ke2 {[%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:16]} Rh3 {(Kf7) [%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:14]}
>38. Rd5 {(Ra5) [%eval 28,16] [%emt 0:00:17]} Rh1 {
>(Rg3) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:14]} 39. Rb5 {(Kf2) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:13]
>} Rh3 {(Rg1) [%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:17]} 40. Rc5 {
>(Kf2) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:10]} Rg3 {(Rb3) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:12]}
>41. Rd5 {(Rh5) [%eval 25,15] [%emt 0:00:12]} Ra3 {[%eval 19,15] [%emt 0:00:11]}
>42. Re5 {[%eval 25,16] [%emt 0:00:19]} 1/2-1/2
>
>This is the Final position:
>
>[D]8/8/5k2/4R3/5P2/r7/4K3/8 b - - 0 42
>
>
>>Of course its a draw after Bf3.
>>I dont believe Kasparov thought 27.Bf3 is better for white.
>>
>>He wrote that 27.Kh2 Raa3! 28.Ncb3 would have given white the upper hand.
>>
>>I dont think 27...Raa3 is the best move however.
>
>What move do you consider better than 27....Raa3?!
>
>Jorge
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