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Subject: Re: some questions about chess programs and money

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 16:37:21 04/08/03

Go up one level in this thread


On April 08, 2003 at 03:21:54, José Carlos wrote:

>On April 08, 2003 at 00:56:18, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On April 08, 2003 at 00:12:37, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On April 07, 2003 at 16:10:09, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>On April 07, 2003 at 11:44:34, Steve Maughan wrote:
>>>>>Uri,
>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe you mean 50$ per copy but I asked about the total profit.
>>>>>
>>>>>The problem is that few people have access to the sales figures of the top
>>>>>programs so it's difficult to answer a question about revenue.  And again the
>>>>>sales level will change quite dramatically depending upon the level of
>>>>>advertising / promotion.  It's much easier to answer a question like, "would you
>>>>>buy a program for $10 that is the same strength as Crafty?"
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>>I don't even *want* to answer it here though a lot is known in the small world.
>>>>Basically if Uri would have been less of an idiot, he could have figured it out
>>>>already. I posted some numbers half a year ago or so and that will be forever
>>>>best indication he ever will get of course.
>>>>
>>>>Now he asks the same question and i'm sure that from all persons i would be the
>>>>only one to *ever* post anything realistic here, though some here who won't
>>>>answer to this thread can guess and will get to the same numbers.
>>>>
>>>>Chris Carson is the last of course to believe here. Complete idiot. If you lower
>>>>price you do not sell more. usually you sell less as "that program gotta suck
>>>>then".
>>>
>>>If everything else is equal, then lowering the price should sell more.
>>
>>Only an american can come up with such a stupid argument, though in america it
>>is "winner takes it all anyway". People kick on winners. If you go for 50 dollar
>>and are a winner, then they buy you even if the number 2 which is 1 rating point
>>less, is $20. If it's $10 it doesn't get taken serious. Or do you take the old
>>chessmasters dumped at warehouses for $10 serious?
>>
>>What does latest chessmaster sell for? Right like 40 dollar. Is that not a bit
>>much for what it offers compared to for example ChessAcademy 7 which is shortly
>>in the market place?
>>
>>Outdated engine in cm9k. not even parallel and so on. does it load uci engines?
>>i don't know. you tell me. how about all the stupid windows? No wonder they
>>can't sell it in europe. But if they sell it here. then for 40 euro of course.
>>not for 20. then it gotta suck, understand?
>>
>>If not. then you hopeless case. Well you're not born as a salesman i guess.
>>That's more into my family. bob probably too. he'll sell deep blue as well
>>tested modern 0.09 micron hardware using the latest algorithms even to you :)
>>
>>What does deepfritz sell for? 100 euro or so!
>>
>>for the bugfix of it to work better on P4 and K7 ddr ram machines i guess, you
>>pay another 68 euro only if you had paid that 100 euro or so already.
>>
>>those 168 euro just for a bit of lineair speedup which isn't too impressive
>>either at 4 threads of a dual Xeon.
>>
>>Shredder outsearched it to the left and right at paderborn. At any random
>>position in fact.
>>
>>that where fritz got like 2.2 mln nodes a second or so against me. (a lot less
>>than the production deepfritz gets anyway at dual K7s around, also search depth
>>seems less in tournaments or i simply give it too much time a position here).
>>
>>I get impression tournament version of fritz is different from what lies in the
>>market place, based upon search depths seen. But i could be wrong. I only wrote
>>that last sentence because of a courtcase i would get on my roof btw.
>>
>>Its search depth sucks at tournaments nowadays.
>>
>>So basically it is what the fool wants to pay for. You aren't going to sell more
>>of the current chessmaster version when asking $35 instead of $39.95
>>
>>Of course you ask $39.95.
>>
>>Come to europe and you'll understand.
>>
>>Sjeng is tactical way stronger than Fritz, latest 1.4 version i have here is
>>destroying everything tactical (except ferret i guess, but only bruce can answer
>>that). Fritz is tactical a joke compared to it and i thought fritz' speed was
>>just to solve tactics quickly. To quote frans: "learn through speed".
>>
>>You get a cheapo 1.0 version which is dual right from the start.
>>
>>Buy shredder7. Directly get for free dual version.
>>
>>For fritz you pay 168 euro extra to get it dual.
>>
>>How about that?
>>
>>"deep fritz rules" i hear some say. Well deepfritz7 is like half a year older
>>than fritz8. If some say df7 is better i bet it means that every new version of
>>fritz hardly anything gets modified.
>>
>>All i could figure out is that df7 is a bit better in endgames than the previous
>>versions. further it dislikes bishop pairs more. Even when they are good (as the
>>tournament lines it plays it doesn't have them. so get it a position where
>>bishop pair is good and it will lose amazingly).
>>
>>but why do so many people buy df7 then and not shredder7?
>>
>>do not ask me!
>>
>>Ask dan corbit or cris carson. they know it. they buy df7 and also the upgrade
>>because it is CHEAPER than shredder7, isn't it?
>>
>>Welcome in europe.
>>
>>Only in India it is worse i heard because of all kind of protections...
>>...anyway that's on products like computers... ...so europe is great in fact...
>>
>>Uri lives in Israel. Not America.
>>
>>You can see Israel of course as Asia. You can see it however more as europe than
>>USA is.
>>
>>>The free programs never 'sell' an infinite amount, even though some are quite
>>>strong and the price is zero.
>>>The problem is that everything else is never equal.
>>>
>>>The most important factors are:
>>>1.  Advertizing.  Why did you buy a product?  Most people are just going to
>>>remember what they saw on TV, read in a magazine, or possibly read on the box.
>>>
>>>2.  Shelf space.  If it isn't in the stores, nobody is going to buy it.
>>>
>>>3.  Ease of use.  If the users can't figure out how to use it, it will get bad
>>>word-of-mouth and/or thrown away when attempted.  Must have easy installation.
>>>Must have clear, concise manual with an index.  Must have online support.
>>>
>>>4.  Features.  Can it stop a herd of stampeding Yak?  The other product has that
>>>feature with a check-mark!
>>>
>>>Everything else pales in comparison.
>>>
>>>>Perhaps Uri should first try to win the ICGA world champs (and not at 500 moves
>>>>a minute as i would love to see movei play rebel there as rebel only starts
>>>>counting time after ply 2 or so, so it will always think longer than movei
>>>>there) and if he is there in that small world. Then he'll be able to chat enough
>>>>during the rounds and he'll know more than he ever will find out here at the
>>>>CCC.
>>>>
>>>>Best regards,
>>>>Vincent
>
>  Some questions:
>
>  - If you know so much about selling, why aren't you rich selling Diep?

What i earn with diep is none of your business though i bet you would like to
know, and please tell me which tournament Fritz managed to kick me. Last 3
tournaments or so i nearly managed to kick it. So i'm closing in!

You definitely are a troll. There is a big difference between selling something
for $40-50 versus $5-$10.

You know it too, but you just like to troll of course as you are too dumb to
realize anything.

Note that shareware DIEP was at 10 million cdroms.

>  - If americans are so stupid about economy, why are they the #1 in that field?
>  - Are you gonna buy Averno? I sell it for $1000, so it must be damn strong.
>  - Why do outdated The King kick your state-of-the-art program in the arse?
>  - Why does joke-search-pathetic-eval-Fritz kick
>super-parallel-search-genius-eval Diep in the arse?
>
>  Just curious,
>
>  José C.



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