Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 16:43:26 04/08/03
Go up one level in this thread
On April 08, 2003 at 02:32:48, Uri Blass wrote: Most people still kick on fritz because of its high node counts but they are not aware that other programs outsearch it bigtime, where it is clear that their marketing slogan was 'learning by search' is completely outdated because of that. >On April 08, 2003 at 00:56:18, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On April 08, 2003 at 00:12:37, Dann Corbit wrote: >> >>>On April 07, 2003 at 16:10:09, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>On April 07, 2003 at 11:44:34, Steve Maughan wrote: >>>>>Uri, >>>>> >>>>>>Maybe you mean 50$ per copy but I asked about the total profit. >>>>> >>>>>The problem is that few people have access to the sales figures of the top >>>>>programs so it's difficult to answer a question about revenue. And again the >>>>>sales level will change quite dramatically depending upon the level of >>>>>advertising / promotion. It's much easier to answer a question like, "would you >>>>>buy a program for $10 that is the same strength as Crafty?" >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>> >>>>>Steve >>>> >>>>I don't even *want* to answer it here though a lot is known in the small world. >>>>Basically if Uri would have been less of an idiot, he could have figured it out >>>>already. I posted some numbers half a year ago or so and that will be forever >>>>best indication he ever will get of course. >>>> >>>>Now he asks the same question and i'm sure that from all persons i would be the >>>>only one to *ever* post anything realistic here, though some here who won't >>>>answer to this thread can guess and will get to the same numbers. >>>> >>>>Chris Carson is the last of course to believe here. Complete idiot. If you lower >>>>price you do not sell more. usually you sell less as "that program gotta suck >>>>then". >>> >>>If everything else is equal, then lowering the price should sell more. >> >>Only an american can come up with such a stupid argument, though in america it >>is "winner takes it all anyway". People kick on winners. If you go for 50 dollar >>and are a winner, then they buy you even if the number 2 which is 1 rating point >>less, is $20. If it's $10 it doesn't get taken serious. Or do you take the old >>chessmasters dumped at warehouses for $10 serious? >> >>What does latest chessmaster sell for? Right like 40 dollar. Is that not a bit >>much for what it offers compared to for example ChessAcademy 7 which is shortly >>in the market place? >> >>Outdated engine in cm9k. > >Outdated? >I did not buy it but >it is one of the best. > >> not even parallel and so on. > >Not relevant because most customers do not have parallel machine. > > > does it load uci engines? >>i don't know. you tell me. how about all the stupid windows? No wonder they >>can't sell it in europe. But if they sell it here. then for 40 euro of course. >>not for 20. then it gotta suck, understand? >> >>If not. then you hopeless case. Well you're not born as a salesman i guess. >>That's more into my family. bob probably too. he'll sell deep blue as well >>tested modern 0.09 micron hardware using the latest algorithms even to you :) >> >>What does deepfritz sell for? 100 euro or so! >> >>for the bugfix of it to work better on P4 and K7 ddr ram machines i guess, you >>pay another 68 euro only if you had paid that 100 euro or so already. >> >>those 168 euro just for a bit of lineair speedup which isn't too impressive >>either at 4 threads of a dual Xeon. >> >>Shredder outsearched it to the left and right at paderborn. At any random >>position in fact. > >you said in the past that evaluation and not search is the important thing at >depth>12 >I see that you contradict yourself. > >depth is also not eqvivalent so you cannot compare and the fact that shredder >reports bigger depth is not a proof that it see more. > >> >>that where fritz got like 2.2 mln nodes a second or so against me. (a lot less >>than the production deepfritz gets anyway at dual K7s around, also search depth >>seems less in tournaments or i simply give it too much time a position here). >> >>I get impression tournament version of fritz is different from what lies in the >>market place, based upon search depths seen. But i could be wrong. I only wrote >>that last sentence because of a courtcase i would get on my roof btw. >> >>Its search depth sucks at tournaments nowadays. > >The number that Fritz writes as it's search depth is not important. > >> >>So basically it is what the fool wants to pay for. You aren't going to sell more >>of the current chessmaster version when asking $35 instead of $39.95 >> >>Of course you ask $39.95. >> >>Come to europe and you'll understand. >> >>Sjeng is tactical way stronger than Fritz, latest 1.4 version i have here is >>destroying everything tactical (except ferret i guess, but only bruce can answer >>that). Fritz is tactical a joke compared to it and i thought fritz' speed was >>just to solve tactics quickly. To quote frans: "learn through speed". > >Fritz has a good evaluation and search is also about searching positional lines >and not only about tactics. > >There are a lot of positions when Fritz's evaluation is more correct than >shredder. > >> >>You get a cheapo 1.0 version which is dual right from the start. >> >>Buy shredder7. Directly get for free dual version. >> >>For fritz you pay 168 euro extra to get it dual. >> >>How about that? >> >>"deep fritz rules" i hear some say. Well deepfritz7 is like half a year older >>than fritz8. If some say df7 is better i bet it means that every new version of >>fritz hardly anything gets modified. >> >>All i could figure out is that df7 is a bit better in endgames than the previous >>versions. further it dislikes bishop pairs more. Even when they are good (as the >>tournament lines it plays it doesn't have them. so get it a position where >>bishop pair is good and it will lose amazingly). >> >>but why do so many people buy df7 then and not shredder7? >> >>do not ask me! > >I bought both Fritz8 and Shredder7(not df7) > >Uri
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