Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: deep blue versus diep

Author: Omid David Tabibi

Date: 07:01:48 04/13/03

Go up one level in this thread


On April 13, 2003 at 07:41:00, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On April 13, 2003 at 00:14:52, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>
>may i remind you that many programs use R=3 basically with exception sometimes
>of the nullmove of depthleft == 4.
>
>I'm doing more in qsearch than you do.
>
>Further your verification search is using R=3 too with a bug in the hashtables
>management. Because of that bug which is that you do not store in hashtables
>whether a search result is based upon a verification or not, the worst case
>performance of verification search is R=3.

One of the reviewers of the article asked several questions regarding the use of
hash tables in conjunction with verified null-move pruning. I told him exactly
what I told you, i.e., the depth stored in the hash table is the depth after
reduction (e.g., if we were in depth 6, have a fail-high report and reduce the
depth to 5, then the final stored depth in the hash table is 5). That might be
too conservative a method, but it guarantees that no hash table bugs (of the
form you mention) are encountered.

However, I did not explicitly mention it in the article, as I preferred that it
remain as an exercise to the reader (and the reviewer also agreed that it might
be best to leave it to the reader to experiment). The method I used might be too
conservative, and so other programmers might achieve even better results by
using a more aggressive use of hash tables.


>
>Best regards,
>Vincent
>
>>On April 12, 2003 at 22:45:19, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On April 12, 2003 at 13:20:51, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 12, 2003 at 10:02:43, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 12, 2003 at 09:17:31, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Quite an interesting read Vincent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm afraid you are investing too much in the parallel speedup though. Any
>>>>>>hardware speedup will be linear (at best) while algorithmic enhancements are
>>>>>>exponential. If you manage to search one ply deeper by an algorithmic
>>>>>>improvement, the gain will be more than any parallel speedup can yield.
>>>>>
>>>>>I agree that the hardware speedup from parallel search will be linear at best
>>>>>but linear improvement is not always less than one ply.
>>>>
>>>>Diep is already parallel. I assume that he will get far less than a 4x speedup
>>>>for his latest work on massive parallelism. Assuming an effective branching
>>>>factor of 4, that speedup will equal one ply.
>>>
>>>b.f. = 2.9
>>
>>Because you are using standard R=3; but is the search reliable? That bf will not
>>be of much use if it causes Diep to find the correct move two plies later in
>>comparison to its competitors. When was the last time you compared Diep's
>>performance to other engines using test suites?
>>
>>BTW, I can get even a smaller branching factor than yours in no time. I will
>>just use standard R=6 :)
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>If the number of processors is big then it can be more than one ply.
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that it is possible to get a lot more than one ply by pruning and
>>>>>extensions but I decided that I prefer first to improve movei's evaluation and
>>>>>only later to improve movei by better pruning and extensions because evaluation
>>>>>is one of the things that is used in decisions about pruning and extensions.
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that Movei's main problem in games with programs at similiar strength
>>>>>is in the endgame so I will probably do some improvement in that stage before
>>>>>going back to search.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.