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Subject: Re: Can somebody find the losing mistake(Frenzee-Movei)

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 12:17:21 04/13/03

Go up one level in this thread


On April 13, 2003 at 14:19:20, John Merlino wrote:

>On April 13, 2003 at 06:55:48, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>Movei has a positive record against frenzee but I am more interested in games
>>that it is losing so I give one of them here.
>>
>>Note that both program evaluated the position wrong as a small advantage for
>>movei and suddenly frenzee found itself winning.
>>
>>Movei got QN vs RRPP and lost the game.
>>
>>It seems clear to me that after 38...Qe8 black is lost but I suspect that the
>>losing error was earlier.
>>
>>I will be happy to hear some comments about the game.
>>
>>
>>[Event "Computer chess game"]
>>[Site "URI-PC"]
>>[Date "2003.04.12"]
>>[Round "1"]
>>[White "Frenzee 143.1"]
>>[Black "movei00_8044"]
>>[Result "1-0"]
>>[PlyCount "139"]
>>[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
>>[TimeControl "1200+20"]
>>
>>1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. Bc4 g4 5. O-O d5 6. Bxd5 gxf3 7. Qxf3 Qf6 8.
>>Nc3 c6 9. Bb3 Be6 10. Bxe6 fxe6 11. Qh5+ Qg6 12. Qe5 Nd7 13. Qxh8 O-O-O 14. Ne2
>>Ngf6 15. Nxf4 Bc5+ 16. Kh1 Qf7 17. Qxd8+ Kxd8 18. Nh3 e5 19. d3 Kc8 20. Bd2 Qg8
>>21. Nf2 Kb8 22. Nd1 Ng4 23. h3 Qd8 24. g3 Qg8 25. b4 Bd4 26. c3 Bb6 27. Rf3
>>Ngf6 28. Ne3 Ne8 29. c4 Bd4 30. Rc1 c5 31. b5 a6 32. a4 axb5 33. axb5 Qg5 34.
>>Rd1 Ng7 35. Nd5 Qh5 36. Kg2 Ne6 37. b6 Nd8 38. Rdf1 Qe8 39. Rf5 Qg6 40. Rg5 Qh6
>>41. Bc1 Qc6 42. Rg8 Nxb6 43. Rxd8+ Ka7 44. Rff8 Qa4 45. Ra8+ Nxa8 46. Rxa8+
>>Kxa8 47. Nb6+ Ka7 48. Nxa4 Ka6 49. Bd2 b5 50. cxb5+ Kxb5 51. Nc3+ Kc6 52. Nd5
>>c4 53. dxc4 Kc5 54. Nf6 Kxc4 55. Bg5 Bc5 56. Nxh7 Kd4 57. Kf3 Kc4 58. g4 Bb6
>>59. Be7 Ba5 60. g5 Bd2 61. g6 Bh6 62. Bf8 Bc1 63. g7 Kc3 64. g8=Q Bf4 65. Ba3
>>Bc1 66. Qc8+ Kb3 67. Qxc1 Ka4 68. Qb2 Ka5 69. Bc5 Ka6 70. Qb6# {White mates}
>>1-0
>>
>>Uri
>
>(This analysis was done fairly quickly on a humble P3-733)
>
>The only two moves that Chessmaster 9000 seems to question are:
>
>31...a6 (preferring Qg5 which movei makes two moves later), with an eval
>difference of about 0.3.
>
>34...Ng7 (preferring Bxe3), with an eval difference of about 0.5. It is after
>this move that the eval favors White for the first time in the game.
>
>CM9000 never considers 38...Qe8, and suggests several other moves:
>
>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>0:00	1/7	0.42	73909		38...Qg6 39.Rf5 h6 40.g4 Qe6 41.Rb1
>					Nc6
>0:01	1/8	0.39	141955		38...Qg6 39.Rf5 h6 40.g4 Qh7 41.Nf6
>					Nxf6 42.Rxf6 h5 43.g5
>0:05	1/9	0.50	437698		38...Qg6 39.Rf5 h6 40.g4 Ka8 41.Rb1
>					Kb8 42.Kh2 Qd6
>0:12	2/10	2.51	1045680		38...Qg6 39.Rf8 Nxf8 40.Rxf8 Qd6
>					41.Rg8 Kc8 42.Bg5 h6 43.Ne7+ Kd7
>					44.Rxd8+ Kxd8 45.Nf5+ hxg5 46.Nxd6
>0:14	2/10	0.63	1258438		38...Ne6 39.g4 Qe8 40.Rf7 Nf4+
>					41.R1xf4 exf4 42.Bxf4+ Be5 43.Rxd7
>					Bxf4 44.Rxh7 Qg8 45.Nf6
>0:23	2/10	0.46	2047948		38...Bb2 39.Re1 Qg6 40.Rf5 Nf7
>					41.Ref1 Nd8 42.Bg5 Ne6 43.Be3 Bd4
>0:27	2/10	0.37	2439056		38...h6 39.g4 Qg6 40.Nf6 Nf8 41.Ng8
>					Nfe6 42.Nxh6 Nf4+ 43.Bxf4 exf4
>					44.Nf5
>0:37	3/11	0.62	3444743		38...h6 39.g4 Qg6 40.Nf6 Nf8 41.Ng8
>					Nd7 42.Nxh6 Qxb6 43.Nf5 Qg6 44.Ne7
>0:54	3/11	0.51	5051461		38...Bb2 39.g4 Qg6 40.Rf5 Qe8 41.Rh5
>					Qg8 42.Rh6 Bd4 43.Rd6 Qg7
>1:11	3/11	0.48	6785131		38...Kc8 39.g4 Qe8 40.Rf5 Kb8 41.Be1
>					Qg6 42.Bh4 Ne6 43.Rf7 Qh6 44.Rxd7
>					Qxh4
>1:40	4/12	0.51	9900109		38...Kc8 39.g4 Qe8 40.Rf5 Kb8 41.Rh5
>					Qg8 42.Rg5 Qh8 43.Kh2 Ne6 44.Rgf5
>					Qg7
>2:03	4/12	0.48	12067223	38...h6 39.g4 Qg6 40.Nf6 Nf8 41.Ng8
>					Nfe6 42.Nxh6 Nf4+ 43.Bxf4 exf4
>					44.Nf5 Be5 45.Rb1 Nc6
>
>After that move, it's definitely over....
>
>jm

I analyzed 38...h6 and got the impression that it is losing.

A possible line is 38...h6 39.g4 Qg6 40.Rf8 Nxf8 41.Rxf8 Qg6 42.Rg8 Kc8 43.g5

and now

Frenzee 143.1 - movei00_8044
[D]2kn2R1/1p6/1P1q3p/2pNp1P1/2PbP3/3P3P/3B2K1/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:

43...hxg5 44.Bxg5
  -+  (-2.10)   Depth: 1   00:00:02
43...Qe6
  -+  (-2.24)   Depth: 1   00:00:02
43...Qe6 44.Rf8
  -+  (-2.06)   Depth: 2   00:00:02
43...hxg5 44.Bxg5
  -+  (-2.10)   Depth: 2   00:00:02
43...hxg5 44.Bxg5 Be3 45.Nxe3
  =  (-0.17)   Depth: 3   00:00:02
43...hxg5 44.Bxg5
  =  (-0.17)   Depth: 3   00:00:02
43...Qe6 44.Rf8
  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 3   00:00:02
43...Qe6 44.Rg7 Nf7 45.gxh6 Nxh6
  -+  (-2.00)   Depth: 3   00:00:02
43...h5 44.Kf1
  -+  (-2.03)   Depth: 3   00:00:03
43...h5 44.Rg7 Ne6
  -+  (-2.10)   Depth: 3   00:00:03
43...h5 44.Rh8 Ba1 45.Rxh5 Qxb6
  -+  (-1.64)   Depth: 4   00:00:03
43...h5 44.Rh8 Kd7 45.Rh7+ Ke6
  µ  (-1.36)   Depth: 4   00:00:03
43...h5 44.Rh8 Qe6 45.Rxh5 Kd7
  µ  (-1.39)   Depth: 5   00:00:03  9kN
43...Qd7 44.gxh6 Qf7 45.Kg3
  µ  (-1.40)   Depth: 5   00:00:03  9kN
43...Qd7 44.g6 Qe6 45.Rg7 h5
  -+  (-1.73)   Depth: 5   00:00:03  9kN
43...Qd7 44.g6 Qe6 45.Bxh6 Qxb6 46.Nxb6+ Kb8
  µ  (-1.33)   Depth: 6   00:00:03  25kN
43...Qd7 44.g6 Qe6 45.Bxh6 Kd7 46.Rg7+ Kd6
  µ  (-1.08)   Depth: 6   00:00:03  25kN
43...h5 44.Rg6 Ne6 45.Rxe6 Qxe6 46.g6
  µ  (-1.09)   Depth: 6   00:00:03  25kN
43...h5 44.g6 Qf8 45.Rxf8 Kd7
  µ  (-1.08)   Depth: 6   00:00:03  25kN
43...Qd7 44.g6 Qe6 45.Bxh6 Kd7 46.Rg7+ Kd6
  µ  (-1.08)   Depth: 6   00:00:03  25kN
43...Qe6 44.Rg6 Qf7 45.Kh2 Qf2+ 46.Kh1
  µ  (-1.09)   Depth: 6   00:00:03  25kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Rg7+ Kd6 46.Bxh6 Nc6
  µ  (-1.17)   Depth: 6   00:00:03  25kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Rg7+ Kd6 46.Bxh6 Nc6 47.Bg5
  µ  (-1.05)   Depth: 7   00:00:03  83kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Bxh6 Nc6 46.Bg5 Kd6 47.Rg7 Nb4 48.Nxb4 cxb4
  µ  (-0.95)   Depth: 8   00:00:03  127kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Rg7+ Kc6 46.Rc7+ Kd6 47.Ne7 h5 48.g7 Qxe7 49.Rxe7 Nf7
  ³  (-0.55)   Depth: 9   00:00:04  458kN
43...Qe6 44.g6
  ³  (-0.55)   Depth: 9   00:00:04  458kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Qd7 45.Rh8 Bb2 46.Bxh6 Qe6 47.g7 Qg6+ 48.Kf3 Ba1
  =  (-0.15)   Depth: 10   00:00:05  1009kN
43...Qe6 44.g6
  =  (-0.15)   Depth: 10   00:00:05  1009kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Rg7+ Kd6 46.Nc7 Qc8 47.Ne8+ Ke6 48.Rc7 Qxc7 49.bxc7 h5
  =  (0.25)   Depth: 11   00:00:10  2526kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Rg7+ Kc6 46.Rc7+ Kd6 47.Ne7 Qxe7 48.Rxe7 Kxe7 49.Bxh6 Ne6
50.h4 Nf4+ 51.Bxf4 exf4
  ²  (0.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:14  4207kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Rg7+ Kc8 46.Rc7+ Kb8 47.Ne7 Qxb6 48.Rc8+ Ka7 49.g7 Qb2
50.g8Q Qxd2+ 51.Kh1
  ±  (0.94)   Depth: 12   00:00:34  12188kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Bxh6 Nc6 46.Bg5 Kd6 47.Rh8 Qxg6 48.Rh6 Qxh6 49.Bxh6 Ke6
  ±  (1.34)   Depth: 13   00:01:18  28647kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Bxh6 Nc6 46.Bg5 Kd6 47.Rh8 Qxg6 48.Rh6 Ke6 49.Rxg6+ Kf7
  +-  (2.34)   Depth: 13   00:01:26  31717kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Bxh6 Nc6 46.Bg5 Kd6 47.Rf8 Qxg6 48.Rf6+ Qxf6 49.Bxf6
  +-  (2.38)   Depth: 13   00:01:34  34507kN
43...Qe6 44.g6 Kd7 45.Bxh6 Nc6 46.Bg5 Be3 47.Bxe3 Kd6 48.Rg7 Nb4 49.Nxb4
  +-  (2.74)   Depth: 14   00:03:32  80002kN

(Blass, Tel-Aviv 13.04.2003)

Maybe 39...Qg6 is not the best and after going back with yace it prefers
39...Qe8 with only +1.19 for white but I do not believe in that move
and yace fails low at depth 16 when the only third alternative Qh4 failed low at
depth 15.

Frenzee 143.1 - movei00_8044
[D]1k1n4/1p1n4/1P5p/2pNp2q/2PbP1P1/3P1R1P/3B2K1/5R2 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:

39...Qh4 40.Rf5 Kc8 41.Be1 Qxe1 42.Rxe1 Nxb6
  =  (0.10)   Depth: -1   00:00:00  17kN
39...Qh4 40.Rf5 Ne6 41.Rh5 Qd8 42.Rxh6 Ng5
  =  (0.13)   Depth: -1   00:00:00  17kN
39...Qh4 40.Rf5 Ne6 41.Nf6 Nxf6 42.Rxf6 Nd8 43.Rxh6 Qe7
  ²  (0.33)   Depth: -1   00:00:00  17kN
39...Qh4 40.Rf5 Ne6 41.Rh5 Qd8 42.Rxh6 Qe8 43.Rh7 Qd8
  ²  (0.63)   Depth: -1   00:00:00  17kN
39...Qe8 40.Bxh6 Qe6 41.Rf8 Kc8 42.Rxd8+ Kxd8 43.Bg5+ Kc8 44.Nc7 Qxb6 45.Ne6
  ²  (0.62)   Depth: -1   00:00:01  17kN
39...Qe8 40.Bxh6 Qe6 41.Rf8 Kc8 42.Bg5 Qxd5 43.cxd5 Nxb6
  ²  (0.61)   Depth: -1   00:00:01  379kN
39...Qe8 40.Bxh6 Kc8 41.Kh2 Qe6 42.Bg5 Qd6 43.Bxd8 Kxd8 44.Rf7 Nxb6 45.Rxb7
  ±  (0.81)   Depth: -1   00:00:01  379kN
39...Qe8 40.Bxh6 Kc8 41.Rf8 Nxf8 42.Rxf8 Qa4 43.Bg5 Qc2+ 44.Kg3 Qxd3+ 45.Kh4
Bf2+ 46.Rxf2 Qxc4 47.Rf8
  ±  (0.93)   Depth: -1   00:00:03  1190kN
39...Qe8 40.Bxh6 Kc8 41.Rf8 Nxf8 42.Rxf8 Qa4 43.Bg5 Qc2+ 44.Kg3 Qxd3+ 45.Kh4
Bf2+ 46.Rxf2 Ne6 47.Rf7 Nxg5
  ±  (0.73)   Depth: -1   00:00:06  2510kN
39...Qe8 40.Nf6 Nxf6 41.Rxf6 Qe7 42.Bxh6 Kc8 43.Rf8 Kd7 44.R1f6 Bc3 45.Kf3 Ne6
46.R8f7
  ±  (0.91)   Depth: -1   00:00:23  8863kN
39...Qe8 40.Nf6 Nxf6 41.Rxf6 Qe7 42.Bxh6 Kc8 43.Rf8 Kd7 44.R1f6 Bc3 45.Bg5 Qg7
46.Rxd8+ Ke7
  ±  (1.31)   Depth: -1   00:00:37  14386kN
39...Qe8 40.Nf6 Nxf6 41.Rxf6 Qe7 42.Bxh6
  ±  (1.31)   Depth: -1   00:00:44  17446kN
39...Qh4 40.Rf5 Ne6 41.Rh5 Qd8 42.Rxh6 Qe8 43.Rh7 Kc8 44.Re7 Qg6 45.Rxd7 Kxd7
46.Rf8
  ±  (1.30)   Depth: -1   00:01:06  26466kN
39...Qh4 40.Rf5 Ne6 41.Rh5 Qd8 42.Rxh6 Qe8 43.Rh7 Kc8 44.Rff7 Ndf8 45.Re7 Qg6
46.Rhf7
  ±  (1.23)   Depth: -1   00:01:24  33194kN
39...Qh4 40.Nf6 Nxf6 41.Rxf6 Kc8 42.R1f5
  +-  (1.59)   Depth: 15   00:02:55  68427kN
39...Qe8 40.Nf6 Nxf6 41.Rxf6 Qe7 42.Bxh6 Kc8 43.Rf8 Kd7 44.R1f6
  +-  (1.58)   Depth: 15   00:03:14  75526kN
39...Qe8 40.Bxh6 Kc8 41.Bf8 Ne6 42.Bd6 Nf4+ 43.Nxf4 exf4 44.Rxf4 Qg6 45.Bc7 Nxb6
46.Bxb6 Qxb6 47.Rf8+ Kd7 48.R1f7+ Ke6
  ±  (1.19)   Depth: 15   00:04:40  106055kN
39...Qe8 40.Nf6 Nxf6 41.Rxf6 Qe7 42.Bxh6 Kc8 43.Rf8 Kd7 44.R1f6 Bc3 45.Bg5 Ne6
46.R6f7 Nxg5 47.Rxe7+ Kc6
  +-  (1.59)   Depth: 16   00:07:30  166186kN
39...Qe8 40.Nf6 Nxf6 41.Rxf6 Qe7 42.Bxh6 Kc8 43.Rf8 Kd7 44.R1f6 Bc3 45.Bg5 Ne6
46.R6f7 Nxg5 47.Rxe7+ Kxe7 48.Rf2
  +-  (2.27)   Depth: 16   00:08:11  180959kN

(Blass, Tel-Aviv 13.04.2003)


Uri



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