Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 07:14:22 04/15/03
Go up one level in this thread
On April 15, 2003 at 09:21:39, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
DIEP at bigger depths seem to like c5 score goes up to 1.263 black up even:
++ c6-c5 procnr=1 terug=481 org=[480;481] newwindow=[480;520000]
03:05 179813 180k 0 0 33270915 (2) 12 (1813,8858) 0.586 c6-c5 b4xc5 Nd7xc5 Rf3xf
6 Qg8xg3 Rf6-f8 Kb8-c7 Ne3-d5 Kc7-d6 Nd5xb6 Qg3xh3 Kh1-g1 Qh3-g3 Kg1-h1 a7xb6 Ra
1-b1 Qg3-h3 Kh1-g1 Qh3xd3 Rf8-d8 Nc5-d7
04:40 181748 182k 0 0 51009645 (2) 13 (1999,9989) 0.586 c6-c5 b4xc5 Nd7xc5 Rf3xf
6 Qg8xg3 Rf6-f8 Kb8-c7 Ne3-d5 Kc7-d6 Nd5xb6 Qg3xh3 Kh1-g1 Qh3-g3 Kg1-h1 a7xb6 Ra
1-b1 Qg3-h3 Kh1-g1 Qh3xd3 Rf8-d8 Nc5-d7
++ g8-e6 procnr=1 terug=587 org=[586;587] newwindow=[586;520000]
06:15 180801 181k 0 0 67928953 (2) 13 (2218,11165) 0.615 Qg8-e6 g3-g4 c6-c5 g4-g
5 Nf6-e8 a2-a3 Bb6-d8 Ne3-f5 Ne8-d6 Bd2-e3 Nd6-b5 Rf3-g3 c5-c4
09:06 178960 179k 0 0 97769895 (2) 14 (3620,18096) 0.521 Qg8-e6 g3-g4 h7-h5 g4-g
5 Nf6-e8 Ne3-f5 Ne8-d6 Kh1-h2 Bb6-d8 Nf5xd6 Qe6xd6 Ra1-g1 Qd6-g6 Rf3-f5
++ c6-c5 procnr=0 terug=522 org=[521;522] newwindow=[521;520000]
22:44 173655 174k 0 0 236966660 (2) 14 (4751,23604) 1.115 c6-c5 c3-c4 c5xb4 Ne3-
d5 Nf6xd5 c4xd5 Bb6-d4 Ra1-f1 Bd4-c3 Bd2-e3 Qg8-g6 Rf1-f2 Bc3-d4 Be3xd4 e5xd4
59:25 172842 173k 0 0 616305726 (2) 15 (8488,43080) 1.263 c6-c5 c3-c4 c5xb4 Ne3-
d5 Nf6xd5 c4xd5 Bb6-c5 Bd2-e1 Qg8-g6 Kh1-h2 Qg6-h5 Kh2-g2 a7-a5
>On April 14, 2003 at 05:18:00, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>As FM i do not see why black with a piece up would take a risk. Simply Qe6 and
>then look whether c5 is possible or some other sequence works like manoeuvring a
>knight or bishop to king side.
>
>DIEP is doubting between all the moves. It doesn't see the difference between
>risky lines like c5 and Qe6:
>
>00:10 160598 161k 0 0 1681467 (2) 10 (285,1629) 0.156 Nf6-e8 Ne3-c4 Bb6-c7 Kh1-h
>2 Nd7-b6 Nc4xb6 Bc7xb6 Rf3-f5 Qg8-e6 Rf5-f8
>++ f6-h5 procnr=1 terug=157 org=[156;157] newwindow=[156;520000]
>++ b6-e3 procnr=1 terug=157 org=[156;157] newwindow=[156;520000]
>00:28 174135 174k 0 0 4900183 (2) 10 (501,2485) 0.181 Bb6xe3 Bd2xe3 Qg8-e6 Kh1-h
>2 Nd7-b6 Ra1-f1 Nf6-d7 c3-c4 Qe6-d6 c4-c5 Qd6xd3 c5xb6 Qd3xe4
>++ g8-e6 procnr=1 terug=182 org=[181;182] newwindow=[181;520000]
>00:35 175150 175k 0 0 6261620 (2) 10 (615,2979) 0.214 Qg8-e6 Kh1-h2 c6-c5 a2-a3
>c5xb4 a3xb4 Qe6-c6 Ra1-f1 Bb6xe3 Rf3xe3 a7-a6
>01:09 178349 178k 0 0 12343547 (2) 11 (1125,5422) 0.666 Qg8-e6 g3-g4 h7-h5 g4-g5
> Nf6-e8 Ne3-f5 Bb6-d8 Bd2-e3 Ne8-d6 Ra1-g1 Nd6xf5 e4xf5 Qe6xa2
>02:02 180269 180k 0 0 22041544 (2) 12 (1575,7748) 0.480 Qg8-e6 Kh1-h2 c6-c5 a2-a
>3 c5-c4 Ne3xc4 Nf6xe4 a3-a4 Ne4xd2 Nc4xd2 Nd7-f6 Nd2-c4 e5-e4 Ra1-e1 Bb6-c7
>++ c6-c5 procnr=1 terug=481 org=[480;481] newwindow=[480;520000]
>03:05 179813 180k 0 0 33270915 (2) 12 (1813,8858) 0.586 c6-c5 b4xc5 Nd7xc5 Rf3xf
>6 Qg8xg3 Rf6-f8 Kb8-c7 Ne3-d5 Kc7-d6 Nd5xb6 Qg3xh3 Kh1-g1 Qh3-g3 Kg1-h1 a7xb6 Ra
>1-b1 Qg3-h3 Kh1-g1 Qh3xd3 Rf8-d8 Nc5-d7
>04:40 181748 182k 0 0 51009645 (2) 13 (1999,9989) 0.586 c6-c5 b4xc5 Nd7xc5 Rf3xf
>6 Qg8xg3 Rf6-f8 Kb8-c7 Ne3-d5 Kc7-d6 Nd5xb6 Qg3xh3 Kh1-g1 Qh3-g3 Kg1-h1 a7xb6 Ra
>1-b1 Qg3-h3 Kh1-g1 Qh3xd3 Rf8-d8 Nc5-d7
>++ g8-e6 procnr=1 terug=587 org=[586;587] newwindow=[586;520000]
>06:15 180801 181k 0 0 67928953 (2) 13 (2218,11165) 0.615 Qg8-e6 g3-g4 c6-c5 g4-g
>5 Nf6-e8 a2-a3 Bb6-d8 Ne3-f5 Ne8-d6 Bd2-e3 Nd6-b5 Rf3-g3 c5-c4
>
>Might be it goes c5 again at ply 14. Dunno.
>
>anyway, taking on e3 looks dumb.
>
>>On April 14, 2003 at 03:44:07, martin fierz wrote:
>>
>>>On April 13, 2003 at 15:04:53, Jim Monaghan wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 13, 2003 at 06:55:48, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Movei got QN vs RRPP and lost the game.
>>>>>
>>>>>It seems clear to me that after 38...Qe8 black is lost but I suspect that the
>>>>>losing error was earlier.
>>>>>
>>>>>I will be happy to hear some comments about the game.
>>>>
>>>>Hi Uri,
>>>>
>>>>I think a strategical mistake occured here:
>>>>
>>>>[D]1k4q1/pp1n3p/1bp2n2/4p3/1P2P3/2PPNRPP/P2B4/R6K b - -
>>>>
>>>>28... Ne8 does not further Black's position. I think 28... Bxe3! is much
>>>>stronger. The WN soon becomes a powerhouse on the white squares as the pawn play
>>>>on the queenside developed resulting in a fine square on d5 where it surveyed
>>>>the board. Meanwhile Black's knights had no squares or targets. Play could
>>>>develop like this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>29. Bxe3 Qe6 {attacking the h-pawn}
>>>>30. Kg2 b6 {preparing c6-c5}
>>>>31. Rf2 Qd6 (focusing on the weak d-pawn}
>>>>32. Rd2 c5 {continuing the attack}
>>>>33. bxc5 Nxc5 {again hitting the weakling}
>>>>34. Rad1 Kb7
>>>>
>>>>White looks tied up and his game lacks life. Black's Q and 2Ns should co-operate
>>>>well together. White didn't get the f-file play or the WN at d5 as in the game.
>>>>My feeling is that Black will prevail.
>>>
>>>i agree with your idea - after Bxe3 white has very little going for himself.
>>>once black consolidates, the game should be over.
>>>
>>>cheers
>>> martin
>>
>>
>>I still did not analyze Bxe3 but I like movei's move after deeper search that it
>>did not get in the game(c5).
>>
>>black gets the intiative and shredder and Fritz agree that the score is
>>improving every iteration at depth>=11 but do not agree about the right reply of
>>black against bxc5:
>>
>>
>>New game
>>[D]1k4q1/pp1n3p/1b3n2/2p1p3/1P2P3/2PPNRPP/P2B4/R6K w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Shredder 7.04:
>>
>>2.Rxf6 Nxf6 3.bxc5 Qxg3 4.cxb6 Qxh3+ 5.Kg1
>> -+ (-3.09) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00
>>2.Rxf6 Nxf6 3.bxc5 Bxc5
>> -+ (-3.65) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
>>2.Rxf6 Nxf6 3.bxc5 Bxc5
>> -+ (-3.65) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
>>2.bxc5 Qc4 3.dxc4 h5
>> µ (-1.19) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qg6 4.g4 Nxg4 5.hxg4 Qh5+ 6.gxh5
>> µ (-1.19) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nd5
>> µ (-1.29) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qg6 4.g4 Nxg4 5.hxg4 Qh5+ 6.gxh5
>> µ (-1.19) Depth: 3/7 00:00:00
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.a4 Qc4
>> µ (-1.18) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.a4 Qc6 5.Kh2
>> µ (-1.11) Depth: 5/9 00:00:00
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.g4 Ka8 5.a4
>> µ (-1.08) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 11kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Ba3 4.g4 Bb2 5.Ne7 Qe6
>> µ (-1.07) Depth: 7/15 00:00:00 32kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Ka8 4.Kh2 Nxe4 5.dxe4 Qxg3+ 6.Nxg3
>> µ (-1.01) Depth: 8/16 00:00:00 107kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.Kh2 h5 5.a4 Nb6
>> µ (-0.97) Depth: 9/23 00:00:01 230kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.g4 Qb6 5.Bc1 Qa5 6.Bb2
>> µ (-1.14) Depth: 10/26 00:00:03 452kN
>>2.a3 Qe6 3.Kh2 cxb4 4.axb4 Bxe3 5.Bxe3 Ng4+ 6.hxg4 Qh6+ 7.Bxh6
>> µ (-1.13) Depth: 10/26 00:00:04 753kN
>>2.a3 Qb3 3.Rf5 cxb4 4.Rxf6 Nxf6 5.cxb4
>> µ (-1.13) Depth: 10/26 00:00:06 998kN
>>2.a3 Qb3 3.Raf1 Qa2 4.Bc1 cxb4 5.axb4 Qe2 6.Nd5 Nxd5 7.exd5 Kc7 8.Bg5 Kd6
>> µ (-1.30) Depth: 11/29 00:00:09 1662kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5
>> µ (-1.29) Depth: 11/29 00:00:10 1790kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.c4 Qc6 5.a4 Nf8 6.Bg5 N6d7 7.Kh2 Ne6
>> µ (-1.08) Depth: 11/29 00:00:12 2177kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.Bg5 h5 5.Kg2 Qb6 6.Bc1 Qa5 7.Bb2
>> µ (-1.18) Depth: 12/31 00:00:24 4150kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.g4 Qb6 5.Bc1 Qa5 6.Bd2 Qa4 7.d4 Nxe4 8.Rb1
>> µ (-1.21) Depth: 13/33 00:00:42 7495kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.c4 Qc6 5.Bg5 Ne8 6.Rd1 Qa6 7.Ra1 Qg6 8.h4 Nd6
>> µ (-1.35) Depth: 14/34 00:01:43 14484kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.c4 Qc6 5.a4 Qb6 6.Raf1 Qb2 7.Bg5 Qc2 8.a5 Qa2 9.Ng7 Ng8
>> µ (-1.39) Depth: 15/36 00:03:58 29374kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.c4 Qc6 5.Bg5 Nxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4 7.Raf1 Qxc4 8.Rd1 Qxa2
>>9.Rfd3 Qe6
>> -+ (-1.51) Depth: 16/40 00:08:25 67523kN
>>
>>(Blass, Tel-Aviv 14.04.2003)
>>New game
>>1k4q1/pp1n3p/1b3n2/2p1p3/1P2P3/2PPNRPP/P2B4/R6K w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Fritz 8:
>>
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Qf7 5.a3 Kc7
>> = (-0.25) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 36kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 b5 5.Bh6 Qf7 6.Bg7
>> = (-0.25) Depth: 8/20 00:00:00 99kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Kc7 5.a4 Qb3 6.a5 b5
>> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 9/26 00:00:00 250kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Kc7 5.Be3 Bxe3 6.Nxe3 b6 7.Nf5
>> ³ (-0.31) Depth: 10/27 00:00:01 696kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Kc7 5.Be3 Bxe3 6.Nxe3 Qe6 7.Nf5 Qb6 8.Rf2
>> ³ (-0.28) Depth: 11/38 00:00:05 2124kN
>>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Kc7 5.Be3 Bxe3 6.Nxe3 Qe6 7.Nf5 Nc5 8.Kf1 Nfxe4
>>9.dxe4 Qc4+
>> ³ (-0.41) Depth: 12/37 00:00:16 6754kN
>>2.bxc5--
>> ³ (-0.69) Depth: 13/41 00:01:30 39810kN
>>2.bxc5 Nxc5 3.Rxf6
>> ³ (-0.69) Depth: 13/43 00:01:34 41569kN
>>2.bxc5--
>> µ (-0.97) Depth: 14/41 00:05:12 141221kN
>>2.bxc5 Nxc5 3.Rxf6
>> µ (-0.97) Depth: 14/47 00:05:31 150024kN
>>2.bxc5 Nxc5 3.Rxf6 Qxg3 4.Rf8+ Kc7 5.Nd5+ Kd6 6.Rf6+ Ne6 7.d4 Qxh3+ 8.Kg1 exd4
>>9.Nxb6 Qg3+ 10.Kh1
>> µ (-1.00) Depth: 15/45 00:14:43 404036kN
>>
>>(Blass, Tel-Aviv 14.04.2003)
>>
>>Uri
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