Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 20:29:31 04/19/03
Go up one level in this thread
On April 19, 2003 at 16:38:30, Alan Grotier wrote: >On April 19, 2003 at 00:06:21, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On April 18, 2003 at 16:29:40, Alan Grotier wrote: >> >>>On April 18, 2003 at 11:44:25, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On April 18, 2003 at 03:49:46, Tom Kerrigan wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 17, 2003 at 00:35:03, andrew tanner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I was wondering if people have come to the general consensus that computers >>>>>>are increasingly becoming unbeatable and consequently the game may soon be >>>>>>losing interest and support except for the famed "man v machine" contest. Of >>>>>>course there will always be enthusiastic support from hobbyists, I am referring >>>>>>specifically about the masses. >>>>>> Here is a typical scenario: A child plays his best friend and wins, then >>>>>>proceeds to return home to his playstation where he gets clobbered even on the >>>>>>easy levels by the tireless machine. Being a precocious youngster, he concludes >>>>>>that "the only way to win is not to play" - excerpted from the movie "war Games" >>>>> >>>>>USCF membership has been on the rise for the past several years, despite the >>>>>depressing (from a human's standpoint) results of high-profile human-computer >>>>>games. >>>>> >>>>>I don't think computers are any more unbeatable to the average player than they >>>>>were 10 years ago. >>>>> >>>>>-Tom >>>> >>>> >>>>I think the _big_ problem is that computers are _not_ "good teachers". A human >>>>expert >>>>(USCF 2000) can teach a beginner so much about the game, while the computer just >>>>tears >>>>his head off and tosses it into a sack. >>> >>> >>>"Of course you do have a point" But I state honestly as an up and down 1500-1600 >>>player striving to improve,modern chess software including Crafy (A great >>>program -Never understood why it is free) has help me do this enormously in no >>>end of ways! >>>I include in this statement also other non chess related computer learning >>>tools. >>>Yes most definately computer learning tools which includes chess programes DOES >>>help the layman to improve. >>>My problem has always been I travel a lot for business.Never been able to follow >>>a 9 to 5pm or week day schedual. >>> >>>Salut: Alan >>> >> >> >> >>There are lots of issues in becoming good at chess. >> >>Definitely a computer will help you with tactics. If you overlook a cheapo, >>the machine will zing you for it. >> >>Having a ready opponent is also useful. You can play/practice whenever you >>want, and you can pick the opening or whatever. >> >>But a human is so far beyond a computer in the ability to teach you. For >>example, a computer might eventually teach you about a weak pawn, but only >>because it continues to win them when you allow them to be created. A human >>could tell you _immediately_ what you did wrong, and why, and save you hundreds >>of "training games" to pick up a well-known idea... > >" Yes I do see your point of view".But consider GM6-7-9K for example.In the > written analysis GM explains in plain language why a certain move is good or > bad. > eg. "The result of you last move is you have more space,your pawn structure > has improved and you have freed your etc...... > Bob,probably an in depth analysis by a GM would prove this to be in error. > But for a 1600 like my self it sure does give a lot of insight! > > Chess for ever: Alain You mean "chessmaster"? Some of its comments are so stupid as to be beyond laughing. Often the reason a GM makes a particular move is not for the simple ideas given by CM, but because of some subtle idea it has no clue about. IE the GM might be trying to hold c4, whie CM blindly assumes a pawn push was to free a bishop that was just fine where it was. The CM-style comments are very "shallow"... >> >> >> >> >>> >>>> >>>>This problem is _years_ away from any real progress... >>>> >>>>And until it is "fixed" the computers are not going to replace humans at all, in >>>>terms of >>>>playing chess.
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