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Subject: Re: What is the lowest rated program tha can still solve this position ?

Author: Drexel,Michael

Date: 01:20:21 04/22/03

Go up one level in this thread


On April 22, 2003 at 03:13:41, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On April 21, 2003 at 18:24:45, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On April 21, 2003 at 18:09:03, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On April 21, 2003 at 17:18:46, Robin Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 20, 2003 at 17:20:11, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>It may be possible to use it in a productive way to avoid problems
>>>>>that I mentioned(the program prefers loss by KR vs KPPP and not drawn KR vs KPP)
>>>>>by having rules to trust tablebases scores only in part of the cases but I do
>>>>>not like it.
>>>>
>>>>Uri,
>>>>
>>>>I know such things are possible in theory. Can you give an example of it
>>>>actually happening?
>>>>
>>>>Robin
>>>
>>>No
>>>If I remember correctly I saw a case when it happened but
>>>I did not care to save the position and I do not plan
>>>to look for it now.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>[D] 8/8/8/7P/4K1P1/r6P/k7/8 b - - 0 1
>>
>>
>>Anaconda 1.0 lost this position with tablebases.
>>It would take the pawn without.
>
>It's a fluke.
>
>I think what happens here is that table bases tell the engine it has a draw if
>it wants it, however the engine is "stupid" and believes it is better and will
>not be satisfied with a draw.
>
>So it's a simple horizon problem as far as I can tell, the TBs provide
>"infinite" depth but the engine does not like the truth it sees and prefers to
>kid itself. Without TBs it doesn't know it choosing a drawing line, so it
>happily eats the pawn.
>
>If the engine was a little better it would know the draw was the best option
>anyway. I don't know about Anaconda, but Ruffian and Frenzee both get a draw
>score showing pretty fast with TBs, so maybe this is related to a bug in
>Anaconda?

IIRC Yace Paderborn would make the mistake Ra4+ on my AMD at home too.
Crafty likes Rc3 here which seems to be still a draw.

Michael

>
>Certainly to conclude from an example where "stupidity by random luck is bliss",
>that table bases hurt, must be considered rediculous.
>
>-S.
>
>>Michael



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