Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: What is the lowest rated program tha can still solve this position ?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 02:34:57 04/22/03

Go up one level in this thread


On April 22, 2003 at 04:30:14, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On April 22, 2003 at 04:14:44, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On April 22, 2003 at 03:13:41, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>On April 21, 2003 at 18:24:45, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 21, 2003 at 18:09:03, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 21, 2003 at 17:18:46, Robin Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 20, 2003 at 17:20:11, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It may be possible to use it in a productive way to avoid problems
>>>>>>>that I mentioned(the program prefers loss by KR vs KPPP and not drawn KR vs KPP)
>>>>>>>by having rules to trust tablebases scores only in part of the cases but I do
>>>>>>>not like it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I know such things are possible in theory. Can you give an example of it
>>>>>>actually happening?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Robin
>>>>>
>>>>>No
>>>>>If I remember correctly I saw a case when it happened but
>>>>>I did not care to save the position and I do not plan
>>>>>to look for it now.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>[D] 8/8/8/7P/4K1P1/r6P/k7/8 b - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Anaconda 1.0 lost this position with tablebases.
>>>>It would take the pawn without.
>>>
>>>It's a fluke.
>>>
>>>I think what happens here is that table bases tell the engine it has a draw if
>>>it wants it, however the engine is "stupid" and believes it is better and will
>>>not be satisfied with a draw.
>>>
>>>So it's a simple horizon problem as far as I can tell, the TBs provide
>>>"infinite" depth but the engine does not like the truth it sees and prefers to
>>>kid itself. Without TBs it doesn't know it choosing a drawing line, so it
>>>happily eats the pawn.
>>>
>>>If the engine was a little better it would know the draw was the best option
>>>anyway. I don't know about Anaconda, but Ruffian and Frenzee both get a draw
>>>score showing pretty fast with TBs, so maybe this is related to a bug in
>>>Anaconda?
>>
>>I think that it is related to the knowledge that frenzee and Ruffian has and
>>ankadota and movei have not.
>>Movei does not use tablebases so it plays the right move but
>>Movei has a negative score for white after Ra4+ even after a long time and I
>>hope that it will be changed after adding score of pawns relative to kings.
>
>Frenzee doesn't have any knowledge of this, but it also chooses the wrong move
>Ra4+, and so does Yace btw. It's a little strange that they both show a draw
>score for a non-drawing move, apparently they are content with a draw, so I'm
>not sure why they don't chose Rxh4 immediatly.
>Ruffian must have special knowledge so it is a bad example, it shows a draw
>score from ply 1 :)

I do not know.

Does Ruffian show scores at ply 1 or 2?

I never saw them.
can you post analysis of Ruffian at depth 1 or 2?


Uri



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.