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Subject: Re: Surak's Chess Tourney updated. Now 72.450 games!

Author: Axel Schumacher

Date: 15:00:28 04/29/03

Go up one level in this thread


On April 29, 2003 at 13:57:28, Drexel,Michael wrote:

>On April 29, 2003 at 13:26:47, Axel Schumacher wrote:
>
>>On April 29, 2003 at 04:24:12, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>
>>>On April 28, 2003 at 21:02:27, Axel Schumacher wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 28, 2003 at 19:57:53, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 28, 2003 at 01:16:09, Axel Schumacher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>News:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-over 200 new engine-versions
>>>>>>- 60 new engines
>>>>>>- new Chessmaster settings, logos
>>>>>>- extra TOP 50 amateur ranking
>>>>>>- short engine report
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Surak's Trophy: The Trophy is an ongoing engine vs. engine tournament, played on
>>>>>>several computers (minimum hardware pentium II, 350mhz: maximum: Athlon 2100+).
>>>>>>Games played so far: #72.460
>>>>>>GUI's: The tournament is played within the following GUI's: Fritz, Winboard,
>>>>>>Arena, Shredder-Classic and Chessmaster.
>>>>>>Number of Engine-versions: #671
>>>>>>Time-controls: Mixed. Mostly Blitz (5m+1s); a lot of Rapids (10m+1s) and some
>>>>>>games with long time-control (40m/40moves) or tournament-time.
>>>>>>Books: Remis-book (Draw-book) or Kurzbuch (Short-book).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tourney-Page:
>>>>>>http://www.grailmaster.com/misc/chess/comp/compindex.html
>>>>>>or
>>>>>>Chess-Page:
>>>>>>http://www.grailmaster.com/misc/chess/chess.html
>>>>>>or
>>>>>>Homepage:
>>>>>>www.grailmaster.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here a small excerpt of one of the rating-lists (Best-versions list):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Place/Engine/Elo/Games
>>>>>>---------------------------------------
>>>>>>1. Deep Fritz 7 2761 395
>>>>>>2. Chess Tiger 14.0 2732 2301
>>>>>>3. Hiarcs 8 2706 1024
>>>>>>4. CM9000 Grailmaster7 2700 219 (best CM-Setting)
>>>>>>5. Ruffian 1.0.1 2688 1092 (best Amateur !)
>>>>>>6. Deep Junior 6.0 2681 1613
>>>>>>7. Shredder 7.0 2674 354
>>>>>>8. Green Light Chess 3.00 2653 90 (!!! Takes the 2nd Amateur place.)
>>>>>>9. SOS.3 for Arena 2642 325
>>>>>>10. Pepito 1.59UCI 2630 268 (greatly improved !)
>>>>>>11. Delfi 4.1 2628 185 (Soon a Top-engine; I'm sure)
>>>>>>12. Gandalf 4.32UCI 2627 576
>>>>>>13. Crafty 17.13 2626 786 (long time no improvement)
>>>>>>14. List 504 2609 430
>>>>>>15. Zarkov 4.5e 2607 315
>>>>>>16. Little Goliath 2000 v3.9 2603 270
>>>>>>17. Smarthink 0.15b1 2601 116 (also a rising star)
>>>>>>18. Nimzo2000b EN 2601 80
>>>>>>19. Aristarch 4.4 2598 502
>>>>>>20. Yace 0.99.50 2591 403
>>>>>>....
>>>>>>196. Pyotr Novice 2.6 1815 143 (I'm 100% against it :-) )
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A great website! Keep up the good work!
>>>>>
>>>>>Just a question: how do you calculate the ratings? It seems that the ratings are
>>>>>too optimistic (minimum being over 1800).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers
>>>>>>Axel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi Omid,
>>>>it's sadly the old problem. I calculate with Fritz. Fritz gives good results IF
>>>>the Elo-startvalue is within the pgn/cbh-file. I don't have this for all engines
>>>>because it would take several hours to do so. Usually the elos for the good
>>>>engines are very accurate, the weak engines receiving too much points.
>>>>Unfortunatelt, I save the games in CB-format, therefore I can't use EloStat. It
>>>>takes also up to a day for my computer to translate 72.000 games into pgn. But
>>>>maybe I will do that in the next update.
>>>>
>>>>Axel
>>>
>>>I dont think your ratings are accurate at all, and I dont believe the
>>>Grailmaster 7 setting is the best CM-setting.
>>>Even the personality I have posted some time ago won a 100 games blitz-match
>>>against it.
>>>
>>>52.5-47.5 (+33 =39 -28)
>>>
>>>5 min, AMD 2200+, ponder off, Remis.ctg, 3,4,5-men, 64MB hash, alternate colours
>>>
>>>My personality lost the same match with Fritz8.ctg against Chessmaster SKR
>>>
>>>48-52 (+29 =38 -33)
>>>
>>>I would suggest to test your personalities and programs similarly to the Kurt
>>>Utzinger and Rolf Bühler tests.
>>>Their tests are IMO exemplary.
>>>
>>>Michael
>>
>>
>>First of all, test between the different CM personalities are quite worthless,
>>they produce results which does not represent their real playing strenght.
>
>Correct of course
>
>In contrast to all other testers I match the engines against at least 50 other
>>engines, which gives the most accurate results. With this method the results are
>>extremely reproducible. I made a test with Nemjet 3.05:
>>The first 100 games: Elo 2524.
>>The second 100 games: Elo 2524.
>>The third 100 games: Elo 2523.
>>
>>Other engines behaved the same, therefore my method works very well.
>
>How should I now against whom and how often you matched the different
>Chessmaster settings?
>I noticed that almost all Chessmaster personalities play very strong
>against some top engines and very bad against others.
>IMO accurate tests should be played with the same conditions for all programs:
>
>- same number of games against all top programs

This is O.K. if you test only a few engines. However, I test now 700 engine
versions!

>- same hardware

All CM personalities run at the same computer.

>- same time control (this is not mandatory, however results of blitz

All have the same time control.

>  games and results of longer time control games should be seperated)
>
>Michael
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>>Axel
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>>Axel



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