Author: Uri Blass
Date: 01:34:22 05/01/03
Go up one level in this thread
On May 01, 2003 at 03:59:30, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >On May 01, 2003 at 00:54:22, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On April 30, 2003 at 19:05:22, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On April 30, 2003 at 13:47:23, George Tsavdaris wrote: >>> >>>>On April 30, 2003 at 13:29:09, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 30, 2003 at 12:28:54, WILLIAMS POLK wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Would you give it 2400 elo? Can you still Draw against it like the other >>>>>>engines? >>>>> >>>>> 2400 Elo=yes / second question: so far played no games myself. will >>>>> follow but I think a draw isn't impossible. >>>>> Kurt >>>> >>>>Why do you think that Shredder (7/7.04) is only 2400 elo? According to >>>>the results of Fritz 8 and Junior 8, the elo of the todays strongest >>>>programs is around 2800 on a fast machine of course. Don't you >>>>believe that on a pentium 3 MHz Shredder 7 is at least 2720 elo? >>>>Of course the real question is if <Shredder7+ Pentium X MHz> is 2400 elo. >>>>For example Shredder 7 on a Pentium 80.000 MHz is surely 2800 elo as >>>>chess is not played by Shredder or by pentium but with both of them. >>> >>> It might be that I did not understand the question correctly. I thought it >>> was meant if Shredder7 would [at least] have 2400 Elo and therefore >>> answered with yes. People know my opinion: computer ratings are 200-300 >>> points too high, but I do not want to again argue about this. I do simply >>> not understand why it should be possible for 2000-Elo-players to get 2-3 >>> draws out of 10 games if the top programs have 2700-2800 Elo. >> >>Maybe it is possible for the same players to do even better against kramnik and >>kasparov in case that these players do not know the opponent and do not try to >>play in a different way against them(for example by avoiding positions with big >>chances for draw). >> >>It is known that GM's often agree to GM draws in 10-20 moves and I think that >>with that style 2000 players have chances to draw against them. >> >> Neither the >>> matches Deep Fritz vs Kramnik nor Deep Junior vs Kasparov have convinced >>> me. Both programs made too often bad moves and only psychological >>> reasons and severe public pressure for the players prevented clear wins >>> in favour of the human beings. >> >>There is another factor that people seem to forget. >>Not winning on purpose in the hope that a draw will make more interest in >>another match. > >> >>I think that matches against humans when humans get so much money only for >>losing is a bad idea. >>I think that there is enough circumstances evidence to say that kramnik did not >>win on purpose. > > Hi Uri > Do you really think Kramnik was 'cheating'? > Kurt Unfrtunately this is my opinion. It is based on the pgn. I do not believe that 2800 player can do these mistakes without cheating If it was only one mistake then it is possible but 2 mistakes that I even expect myself not to do in the same match. It is too much for me to believe that he was not cheating. Uri
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