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Subject: Re: The King strongest Blitz settings...

Author: Drexel,Michael

Date: 11:37:52 05/02/03

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On May 02, 2003 at 13:33:01, Kurt Utzinger wrote:

>On May 02, 2003 at 12:37:52, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On May 02, 2003 at 11:35:51, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>
>>>On May 02, 2003 at 09:55:23, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 02, 2003 at 05:59:14, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 01, 2003 at 13:36:02, Manfred Meiler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 01, 2003 at 13:10:04, Brian Thomas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Subject says it all ... looking for approx the best blitz settings ... thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Brian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>According Surak's website http://www.grailmaster.com/misc/chess/comp/cm.html the
>>>>>>settings "Grailmaster7" and "Tato2" should be very strong in Blitz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Manfred
>>>>>>
>>>>>>PS: Grailmaster7 scored very well also in test suite "WM-Test" (100 test
>>>>>>positions à 20 minutes).
>>>>>
>>>>>    As far as I know, both these settings do not base on a "possible"
>>>>>    CM9-setting. We do therefore not know what we are testing. That's a great
>>>>>    pity and of course of no help whatsoever for the programmer.
>>>>>    Kurt
>>>>
>>>>There are programmers of the GUI and there is a programmer of TheKing engine.
>>>>As Chessmaster 9000 is a mass market product the programmers of the GUI decided
>>>>to make the Setup of the personalities as user friendly as possible.
>>>>Therefore they use 9,5,3,3,1 for the Material values of the default personality
>>>>and not 100,100,100,100,100. The translation is done by the GUI.
>>>>
>>>>Johan de Koning of course is not interested in strong CM9-settings.
>>>>He is probably interested in the strongest TheKing-setting, to make the next
>>>>default engine version stronger.
>>>>I see no problems for the programmer of the engine if there are no possible
>>>>CM9-settings.
>>>>
>>>>Michael
>>>
>>>    Hi Michael
>>>    You are wrong. The programmer is only interested in the strongest
>>>    CM9-settings which then can be "translated" via the logfile output for use
>>>    outside the CM9-GUI. If params are only changed under Fritz-GUI, Johan de
>>>    Koning cannot identify the original parameters of his engine. I know this
>>>    for sure and that's the reason why I am always asking for the original
>>>    CM9-settings and why I strictly avoid to use settings that are not
>>>    based on a CM9-GUI-setting. The whole problem has already earlier been
>>>    posted here, see http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/39159.htm
>>>    Kurt
>>
>>Hi Kurt
>>
>>I can understand why it would be best to leave the Material/Positional
>>value at zero. I also dont change this parameter.
>>
>>Lets assume a personality is found which performs over 50 ELO better than all
>>other personalities and is not based on a CM-GUI-setting.
>>Do you really think Johan de Koning could not reconstruct the reason for this?
>
>   Yes, reconstruction is simply not possible.
>   Kurt

Ich meinte nachvollziehen was die Ursache sein könnte und die richtigen
Schlußfolgerungen ziehen. Ich bin sicher das
dies einem so guten Schachprogrammierer gelingen sollte.

>>
>>The problem with the CM-GUI-settings is simply you cant set slightly
>>asymmetric material parameters for Knight,Bishop and Rook.
>>You sometimes (especially if you have a personality with a risky style) want The
>>King to not trade material if there is an equal strong
>>possibility and on the other hand you dont want to weaken The Kings play too
>>much.
>>To set myb=123 and opb=116 can only weaken the program but myb=101 and opb=100
>>could slightly improve its strength.
>
>    Hard to say in my opinion. My experience show [it's sometimes unbelievable]
>    that even a very small ajdustment of a single parameter can influence the
>    behaviour of the engine in a never expected manner. I have often thought
>    that slightly changing a specific parameter should give better results, but
>    the contrary was the case. I came to the conclusion that all this has
>    nothing to do with logic, it's merely a matter of testing, testing and
>    again testing.
>    Kurt

Sure, its never possible to predict the behaviour of a program if you change the
default settings.
You cant deny that it is possible that a None-CM-GUI-setting is stronger than
all possible CM-GUI-settings.
I see no reason why people shouldnt try it.
Of course I respect your joice not to do it.

>
>>
>>I think Johan the Koning is not happy about the fact that people use
>>TheKing outside the Chessmaster GUI because this is not in the interest of
>>Ubi-Soft and he eventually gets his money from them.
>
>    We can see this the other way round. Quite a lof of people have purchased
>    Chessmaster 9000 only for the purpose to have a very strong engine for
>    matches in the ChessBase or in other GUI's like Arena, ChessAssistant. As
>    long as an original CM9-CD is required to do so, Ubi Soft will not claim I
>    think.
>    Kurt

Unfortunately now people can run TheKing engine in Chessbase with the patch
someone mentioned here because it is not longer required to have an original CD
now. I recogniced that it is very common to trade engines per email.
I had purchased Shredder 7 CD very early and played some games with it at
playchess.com. I had to close the chat window because I recieved a lot of
requests to send it to others. They even offered me a bunch of commercial
engines to trade.
I returned a weak later and not a single person asked me to trade it ...

Michael

>>
>>Michael



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