Author: Kurt Utzinger
Date: 12:28:07 05/02/03
Go up one level in this thread
On May 02, 2003 at 14:37:52, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>On May 02, 2003 at 13:33:01, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>
>>On May 02, 2003 at 12:37:52, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>
>>>On May 02, 2003 at 11:35:51, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 02, 2003 at 09:55:23, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 02, 2003 at 05:59:14, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 01, 2003 at 13:36:02, Manfred Meiler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 01, 2003 at 13:10:04, Brian Thomas wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Subject says it all ... looking for approx the best blitz settings ... thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Brian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>According Surak's website http://www.grailmaster.com/misc/chess/comp/cm.html the
>>>>>>>settings "Grailmaster7" and "Tato2" should be very strong in Blitz.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Manfred
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>PS: Grailmaster7 scored very well also in test suite "WM-Test" (100 test
>>>>>>>positions à 20 minutes).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, both these settings do not base on a "possible"
>>>>>> CM9-setting. We do therefore not know what we are testing. That's a great
>>>>>> pity and of course of no help whatsoever for the programmer.
>>>>>> Kurt
>>>>>
>>>>>There are programmers of the GUI and there is a programmer of TheKing engine.
>>>>>As Chessmaster 9000 is a mass market product the programmers of the GUI decided
>>>>>to make the Setup of the personalities as user friendly as possible.
>>>>>Therefore they use 9,5,3,3,1 for the Material values of the default personality
>>>>>and not 100,100,100,100,100. The translation is done by the GUI.
>>>>>
>>>>>Johan de Koning of course is not interested in strong CM9-settings.
>>>>>He is probably interested in the strongest TheKing-setting, to make the next
>>>>>default engine version stronger.
>>>>>I see no problems for the programmer of the engine if there are no possible
>>>>>CM9-settings.
>>>>>
>>>>>Michael
>>>>
>>>> Hi Michael
>>>> You are wrong. The programmer is only interested in the strongest
>>>> CM9-settings which then can be "translated" via the logfile output for use
>>>> outside the CM9-GUI. If params are only changed under Fritz-GUI, Johan de
>>>> Koning cannot identify the original parameters of his engine. I know this
>>>> for sure and that's the reason why I am always asking for the original
>>>> CM9-settings and why I strictly avoid to use settings that are not
>>>> based on a CM9-GUI-setting. The whole problem has already earlier been
>>>> posted here, see http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/39159.htm
>>>> Kurt
>>>
>>>Hi Kurt
>>>
>>>I can understand why it would be best to leave the Material/Positional
>>>value at zero. I also dont change this parameter.
>>>
>>>Lets assume a personality is found which performs over 50 ELO better than all
>>>other personalities and is not based on a CM-GUI-setting.
>>>Do you really think Johan de Koning could not reconstruct the reason for this?
>>
>> Yes, reconstruction is simply not possible.
>> Kurt
>
>Ich meinte nachvollziehen was die Ursache sein könnte und die richtigen
>Schlußfolgerungen ziehen. Ich bin sicher das
>dies einem so guten Schachprogrammierer gelingen sollte.
>
>>>
>>>The problem with the CM-GUI-settings is simply you cant set slightly
>>>asymmetric material parameters for Knight,Bishop and Rook.
>>>You sometimes (especially if you have a personality with a risky style) want The
>>>King to not trade material if there is an equal strong
>>>possibility and on the other hand you dont want to weaken The Kings play too
>>>much.
>>>To set myb=123 and opb=116 can only weaken the program but myb=101 and opb=100
>>>could slightly improve its strength.
>>
>> Hard to say in my opinion. My experience show [it's sometimes unbelievable]
>> that even a very small ajdustment of a single parameter can influence the
>> behaviour of the engine in a never expected manner. I have often thought
>> that slightly changing a specific parameter should give better results, but
>> the contrary was the case. I came to the conclusion that all this has
>> nothing to do with logic, it's merely a matter of testing, testing and
>> again testing.
>> Kurt
>
>Sure, its never possible to predict the behaviour of a program if you change the
>default settings.
>You cant deny that it is possible that a None-CM-GUI-setting is stronger than
>all possible CM-GUI-settings.
>I see no reason why people shouldnt try it.
>Of course I respect your joice not to do it.
>
>>
>>>
>>>I think Johan the Koning is not happy about the fact that people use
>>>TheKing outside the Chessmaster GUI because this is not in the interest of
>>>Ubi-Soft and he eventually gets his money from them.
>>
>> We can see this the other way round. Quite a lof of people have purchased
>> Chessmaster 9000 only for the purpose to have a very strong engine for
>> matches in the ChessBase or in other GUI's like Arena, ChessAssistant. As
>> long as an original CM9-CD is required to do so, Ubi Soft will not claim I
>> think.
>> Kurt
>
>Unfortunately now people can run TheKing engine in Chessbase with the patch
>someone mentioned here because it is not longer required to have an original CD
>now. I recogniced that it is very common to trade engines per email.
>I had purchased Shredder 7 CD very early and played some games with it at
>playchess.com. I had to close the chat window because I recieved a lot of
>requests to send it to others. They even offered me a bunch of commercial
>engines to trade.
But in the case of Shredder7 this would not help. In view of the
protection mode, Shredder7 will not run if you do not possess the
original CD.
Kurt
>I returned a weak later and not a single person asked me to trade it ...
>
>Michael
>
>>>
>>>Michael
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