Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 12:50:49 05/02/03
Go up one level in this thread
On May 02, 2003 at 15:28:07, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >On May 02, 2003 at 14:37:52, Drexel,Michael wrote: > >>On May 02, 2003 at 13:33:01, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On May 02, 2003 at 12:37:52, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>> >>>>On May 02, 2003 at 11:35:51, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 02, 2003 at 09:55:23, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 02, 2003 at 05:59:14, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 01, 2003 at 13:36:02, Manfred Meiler wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 01, 2003 at 13:10:04, Brian Thomas wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Subject says it all ... looking for approx the best blitz settings ... thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Brian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>According Surak's website http://www.grailmaster.com/misc/chess/comp/cm.html the >>>>>>>>settings "Grailmaster7" and "Tato2" should be very strong in Blitz. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Manfred >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>PS: Grailmaster7 scored very well also in test suite "WM-Test" (100 test >>>>>>>>positions à 20 minutes). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As far as I know, both these settings do not base on a "possible" >>>>>>> CM9-setting. We do therefore not know what we are testing. That's a great >>>>>>> pity and of course of no help whatsoever for the programmer. >>>>>>> Kurt >>>>>> >>>>>>There are programmers of the GUI and there is a programmer of TheKing engine. >>>>>>As Chessmaster 9000 is a mass market product the programmers of the GUI decided >>>>>>to make the Setup of the personalities as user friendly as possible. >>>>>>Therefore they use 9,5,3,3,1 for the Material values of the default personality >>>>>>and not 100,100,100,100,100. The translation is done by the GUI. >>>>>> >>>>>>Johan de Koning of course is not interested in strong CM9-settings. >>>>>>He is probably interested in the strongest TheKing-setting, to make the next >>>>>>default engine version stronger. >>>>>>I see no problems for the programmer of the engine if there are no possible >>>>>>CM9-settings. >>>>>> >>>>>>Michael >>>>> >>>>> Hi Michael >>>>> You are wrong. The programmer is only interested in the strongest >>>>> CM9-settings which then can be "translated" via the logfile output for use >>>>> outside the CM9-GUI. If params are only changed under Fritz-GUI, Johan de >>>>> Koning cannot identify the original parameters of his engine. I know this >>>>> for sure and that's the reason why I am always asking for the original >>>>> CM9-settings and why I strictly avoid to use settings that are not >>>>> based on a CM9-GUI-setting. The whole problem has already earlier been >>>>> posted here, see http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/39159.htm >>>>> Kurt >>>> >>>>Hi Kurt >>>> >>>>I can understand why it would be best to leave the Material/Positional >>>>value at zero. I also dont change this parameter. >>>> >>>>Lets assume a personality is found which performs over 50 ELO better than all >>>>other personalities and is not based on a CM-GUI-setting. >>>>Do you really think Johan de Koning could not reconstruct the reason for this? >>> >>> Yes, reconstruction is simply not possible. >>> Kurt >> >>Ich meinte nachvollziehen was die Ursache sein könnte und die richtigen >>Schlußfolgerungen ziehen. Ich bin sicher das >>dies einem so guten Schachprogrammierer gelingen sollte. >> >>>> >>>>The problem with the CM-GUI-settings is simply you cant set slightly >>>>asymmetric material parameters for Knight,Bishop and Rook. >>>>You sometimes (especially if you have a personality with a risky style) want The >>>>King to not trade material if there is an equal strong >>>>possibility and on the other hand you dont want to weaken The Kings play too >>>>much. >>>>To set myb=123 and opb=116 can only weaken the program but myb=101 and opb=100 >>>>could slightly improve its strength. >>> >>> Hard to say in my opinion. My experience show [it's sometimes unbelievable] >>> that even a very small ajdustment of a single parameter can influence the >>> behaviour of the engine in a never expected manner. I have often thought >>> that slightly changing a specific parameter should give better results, but >>> the contrary was the case. I came to the conclusion that all this has >>> nothing to do with logic, it's merely a matter of testing, testing and >>> again testing. >>> Kurt >> >>Sure, its never possible to predict the behaviour of a program if you change the >>default settings. >>You cant deny that it is possible that a None-CM-GUI-setting is stronger than >>all possible CM-GUI-settings. >>I see no reason why people shouldnt try it. >>Of course I respect your joice not to do it. >> >>> >>>> >>>>I think Johan the Koning is not happy about the fact that people use >>>>TheKing outside the Chessmaster GUI because this is not in the interest of >>>>Ubi-Soft and he eventually gets his money from them. >>> >>> We can see this the other way round. Quite a lof of people have purchased >>> Chessmaster 9000 only for the purpose to have a very strong engine for >>> matches in the ChessBase or in other GUI's like Arena, ChessAssistant. As >>> long as an original CM9-CD is required to do so, Ubi Soft will not claim I >>> think. >>> Kurt >> >>Unfortunately now people can run TheKing engine in Chessbase with the patch >>someone mentioned here because it is not longer required to have an original CD >>now. I recogniced that it is very common to trade engines per email. >>I had purchased Shredder 7 CD very early and played some games with it at >>playchess.com. I had to close the chat window because I recieved a lot of >>requests to send it to others. They even offered me a bunch of commercial >>engines to trade. > > But in the case of Shredder7 this would not help. In view of the > protection mode, Shredder7 will not run if you do not possess the > original CD. > Kurt Yes, but many guys (and very few girls) at playchess.com are not so experienced in CC like you are. They probably thought it would work. Michael > >>I returned a weak later and not a single person asked me to trade it ... >> >>Michael >> >>>> >>>>Michael
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