Author: Uri Blass
Date: 12:59:17 05/03/03
Go up one level in this thread
On May 03, 2003 at 15:45:14, Jim Bond wrote: >On May 03, 2003 at 15:10:50, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On May 03, 2003 at 14:37:48, Jim Bond wrote: >> >>>On May 03, 2003 at 14:07:59, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On May 03, 2003 at 13:44:27, Jim Bond wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 03, 2003 at 10:32:08, George Wilson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> After playing Shredder 7.04 against Several Strong programs on two separate >>>>>>computers I am very "Impressed" . I wonder though what distinguishes this >>>>>>program from the other top programs, what gives it the edge in playing strength? >>>>>> I think it is shredders fantastic endgame prowness. All six of the games it won >>>>>>against century 4 was in the endgame, however rebel seemed to play even with it >>>>>>tactically in all the middlegames >>>>> >>>>>This could be partly due Shredder's ability to probe ending game table base. I >>>>>tend to find that, in its analysis window, the tb numbers are much bigger than >>>>>other engines. >>>> >>>>I disagree >>>>Bigger is not better. >>>> >>>>I did not check your theory but if shredder probes ending tablebases more than >>>>other programs then it suggests that shredder has not knowledge that it can >>>>trust without tablebases. >>>> >>>>A program with knowledge is not going to probe tablebases in a lot of tablebases >>>>positions because calculating the winner by knowledge is faster. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>Calculating the winner by knowledge may be faster but is it more accurate than >>>tablebase? I am afraid not. The table base is a superset of conventional >>>theory or knowledge. It is an oracle. Shredder might be going for accuracy as >>>oppose to speed. >>> >>>Jim >> >>It is not less accurate if you do it only in the right part of the cases. >>The right part can be bigger when the program has more knolwedge. >> >>Uri > >Not less accurate? So are you claiming you or someone can program chess >knowledge equally or more accurate than the complete 5-men tablebase? I believe >the fact is no body can otherwise there wouldn't be tablebase at all. People >wouldn't have developed it in the first place. Can anyone cover all the "right >parts" as quoted from you? Have anyone been able to? I am afraid not. > >Jim I do not use tablebases in movei but there are cases that can be evaluated correctly without tablebases I can give you examples: KQ vs K is always a win if the position is not stalemate and findin if the position is stalemate is faster than calling tablebases. KBP vs K is a draw when the bishop is blind and the king is close enough to the corner. KPP vs KP is a win for the side with the pp if this side is to move and has unstoppable pawn and the distance of the opponent's pawn to be a queen is bigger by at least 2. It is possible to define a lot of rules that will be 100% correct and will cover part of the cases. The main part when they can help is in positions when one side has 3 pieces because these cases can be detected as wins in most of the cases with no errors in the cases that they are detected as wins. Uri
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