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Subject: Re: What's the Secret to Shredder 7.04 Success?

Author: Jim Bond

Date: 23:19:17 05/03/03

Go up one level in this thread


On May 04, 2003 at 02:03:25, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On May 04, 2003 at 01:07:52, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 03, 2003 at 23:47:13, Jim Bond wrote:
>>
>>>On May 03, 2003 at 23:22:05, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 03, 2003 at 21:28:30, Jim Bond wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 03, 2003 at 17:52:40, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 03, 2003 at 17:50:36, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>><snipped>
>>>>>>>I know about programs that tablebases were counter productive for mchess because
>>>>>>>it probed them too much and was slowed down by asignificant factor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I meant here that mchess is an example for a program that tablebases was counter
>>>>>>productive for it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>If you believe that more TB probing is counter productive, you are contradicting
>>>>>with Shredder - the top program.  Take this position for example:
>>>>>
>>>>>2k5/8/7p/8/5qP1/1Q5K/8/8 w - - 0 72
>>>>>
>>>>>If you run infinite analysis on it with Shredder 7.04, Fritz 0.008 and
>>>>>ChessTiger 15, you will find that the Shredder accumlates TB counts about 8
>>>>>times more than Fritz and about 16 times more than ChessTiger.  If TB probing is
>>>>>counter productive, how come Shredder does it so much more and can still be at
>>>>>the top?
>>>>>
>>>>>Jim
>>>>
>>>>Just because Shredder is at the top doesn't mean it plays this particular
>>>>position better than other programs, i.e., the fact that it does so many more
>>>>probes does not mean that more probes are good.
>>>>
>>>>-Tom
>>>
>>>You are saying more probes does not mean that more probes are good, but you
>>>cannot prove that more probe is bad either.  The fact is Shredder does probes
>>>and it is the top program where others does less probes and are less strong.
>>>There is a correlation here wouldn't you agreed?
>>>
>>>Jim
>>
>>If I see A and I see B then it does not mean that A is the reason of B.
>>
>
>
>Bingo. "Correlation" does not necessarily imply "cause and effect."
>
>If program X comes in a blue box and program Y comes in a red box and X is a
>better program, then the conclusion that X is better than Y, because it comes in
>a blue box is the mark of pure idiocy.
>
>
>>
>>Shredder can be better than the opponents because of different reasons.
>>I believe that shredder7.04 is better than the opponents also when the programs
>>do not get tablebases.
>>
>>Uri


You are correct. I have not been claiming it is a fact but it is a possibility
base on observations.  No one would know the truth unless he/she askes Stephan.

Jim



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