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Subject: Re: What's the Secret to Shredder 7.04 Success?

Author: Jim Bond

Date: 23:26:09 05/03/03

Go up one level in this thread


On May 04, 2003 at 02:19:17, Jim Bond wrote:

>On May 04, 2003 at 02:03:25, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>
>>On May 04, 2003 at 01:07:52, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On May 03, 2003 at 23:47:13, Jim Bond wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 03, 2003 at 23:22:05, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 03, 2003 at 21:28:30, Jim Bond wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 03, 2003 at 17:52:40, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 03, 2003 at 17:50:36, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><snipped>
>>>>>>>>I know about programs that tablebases were counter productive for mchess because
>>>>>>>>it probed them too much and was slowed down by asignificant factor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I meant here that mchess is an example for a program that tablebases was counter
>>>>>>>productive for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you believe that more TB probing is counter productive, you are contradicting
>>>>>>with Shredder - the top program.  Take this position for example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2k5/8/7p/8/5qP1/1Q5K/8/8 w - - 0 72
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you run infinite analysis on it with Shredder 7.04, Fritz 0.008 and
>>>>>>ChessTiger 15, you will find that the Shredder accumlates TB counts about 8
>>>>>>times more than Fritz and about 16 times more than ChessTiger.  If TB probing is
>>>>>>counter productive, how come Shredder does it so much more and can still be at
>>>>>>the top?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>Just because Shredder is at the top doesn't mean it plays this particular
>>>>>position better than other programs, i.e., the fact that it does so many more
>>>>>probes does not mean that more probes are good.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Tom
>>>>
>>>>You are saying more probes does not mean that more probes are good, but you
>>>>cannot prove that more probe is bad either.  The fact is Shredder does probes
>>>>and it is the top program where others does less probes and are less strong.
>>>>There is a correlation here wouldn't you agreed?
>>>>
>>>>Jim
>>>
>>>If I see A and I see B then it does not mean that A is the reason of B.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Bingo. "Correlation" does not necessarily imply "cause and effect."
>>
>>If program X comes in a blue box and program Y comes in a red box and X is a
>>better program, then the conclusion that X is better than Y, because it comes in
>>a blue box is the mark of pure idiocy.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Shredder can be better than the opponents because of different reasons.
>>>I believe that shredder7.04 is better than the opponents also when the programs
>>>do not get tablebases.
>>>
>>>Uri
>
>
>You are correct. I have not been claiming it is a fact but it is a possibility
>base on observations.  No one would know the truth unless he/she askes Stephan.
>
>Jim


I apologize: Stefan Meyer-Kahlen



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