Author: Günther Simon
Date: 08:19:26 05/04/03
Go up one level in this thread
On May 04, 2003 at 10:47:05, Joachim Rang wrote: >Okay, > >there was a discussion what does give Shredder 7 an edge above other programs. >I created a position to determine the influence of king safety and piece >coordination: > >[D] rqb2r1n/ppn1kpbp/2p3p1/4p3/3PP3/1QP2NBP/BP3PP1/3RR1K1 w - - 0 1 > >White is a piece down, but the exposed black king and the black trapped pieces >makes this a won position for white. It's all tactics, but it's no simple >tactics, so most programs get a positive score for white not earlier than depth >12 or 13 - except Shredder 7: > >Shredder 7 starts with +2.14 at depth 1 (sic!) and never goes below + 1 for >white - also the positions in which white get material back are many plies away. > >It seems to me that Shredder 7 evaluates king safety and piece coordination with >very high values. At least here Shredder's optimism is justified. > >Below are some analysis of some programs on a slow 233 Mhz - Notebook: > >rqb2r1n/ppn1kpbp/2p3p1/4p3/3PP3/1QP2NBP/BP3PP1/3RR1K1 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Shredder 7: > >1.dxe5 > +- (2.14) Tiefe: 1/1 00:00:00 >1.dxe5 > +- (2.14) Tiefe: 1/1 00:00:00 >1.dxe5 Lxh3 2.gxh3 > +- (1.58) Tiefe: 2/2 00:00:00 >1.dxe5 Le6 > ± (1.06) Tiefe: 2/4 00:00:00 >1.dxe5 Se6 > ± (0.93) Tiefe: 2/4 00:00:00 >1.Db4+ Kd8 2.Lxe5 > ± (1.10) Tiefe: 2/7 00:00:00 >1.Db4+ Kd7 2.dxe5+ Sd5 > +- (1.48) Tiefe: 2/8 00:00:00 >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.dxe5 > +- (1.56) Tiefe: 2/10 00:00:00 >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.Lxf7+ Sxf7 3.Dxf8+ Kxf8 > ± (1.31) Tiefe: 3/6 00:00:00 >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.Lxf7+ Sxf7 3.De7+ Kxe7 > ± (0.81) Tiefe: 3/6 00:00:00 >1.Db4+ Kd8 2.Sxe5 Lxh3 > ± (0.85) Tiefe: 3/18 00:00:00 >1.dxe5 Td8 2.Db4+ Ke8 > ± (0.91) Tiefe: 3/18 00:00:00 >1.dxe5 Le6 2.Db4+ Ke8 > ± (1.21) Tiefe: 3/18 00:00:00 >1.Lxe5 Le6 2.Db4+ Ke8 > ± (1.28) Tiefe: 3/18 00:00:00 >1.Lxe5 f6 2.Db4+ Ke8 > +- (1.84) Tiefe: 3/18 00:00:01 >1.Lxe5 f6 2.Db4+ Ke8 > +- (1.84) Tiefe: 3/18 00:00:01 >1.Lxe5 f6 2.Db4+ Ke8 3.Lf4 > +- (1.73) Tiefe: 4/10 00:00:01 >1.Lxe5 f6 2.Db4+ Ke8 3.Ld6 Sa6 > +- (1.77) Tiefe: 5/14 00:00:01 >1.Lxe5 Lxe5 2.dxe5 Ke8 3.Dxf7+ Sxf7 4.Lxf7+ Kxf7 > +- (1.52) Tiefe: 6/14 00:00:01 >1.Lxe5 Lxe5 2.Sxe5 Le6 3.Da3+ Ke8 4.c4 > +- (1.44) Tiefe: 6/14 00:00:01 >1.Lxe5 Lxe5 2.Sxe5 Le6 3.Da3+ Kf6 4.De7+ Kxe7 5.Sxc6+ bxc6 > ± (1.19) Tiefe: 7/14 00:00:03 66kN >1.Lxe5 Lxe5 2.Sxe5 Le6 3.d5 Lg4 > ± (1.19) Tiefe: 7/14 00:00:03 71kN >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.Lxe5 Le6 3.Lxg7 a6 > ± (1.20) Tiefe: 7/14 00:00:03 78kN >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.Lxe5 Lxe5 3.dxe5 Se6 4.Dd6 Dxd6 > ± (1.20) Tiefe: 7/23 00:00:05 132kN >1.Da3+ Ke8 2.Lxe5 Lxe5 3.dxe5 Se6 4.Lc4 Ld7 > ± (1.21) Tiefe: 7/23 00:00:06 159kN >1.Da3+ Ke8 2.Lxe5 Lxe5 3.dxe5 Se6 4.Lc4 Ld7 > ± (1.21) Tiefe: 7/23 00:00:07 172kN >1.Da3+ Ke8 2.Lxe5 Lxe5 3.dxe5 Le6 4.Lb1 Sb5 5.Dc5 > ± (1.15) Tiefe: 8/23 00:00:14 376kN >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.Sxe5 Le6 3.Sc4 f6 4.Dd6 > ± (1.16) Tiefe: 8/23 00:00:15 401kN >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.Sxe5 Le6 3.Sc4 b5 4.Sd6+ Kd8 5.Sxf7+ Lxf7 6.Lxc7+ Kxc7 7.Dd6+ Kxd6 > ± (1.16) Tiefe: 8/24 00:00:18 483kN >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.Sxe5 Le6 3.Sc4 b5 4.Sd6+ Kd8 5.d5 > ± (1.29) Tiefe: 9/28 00:00:34 962kN >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.Sxe5 f6 3.Sf3 Sf7 4.Lb3 Ld7 5.e5 fxe5 6.dxe5 > +- (1.53) Tiefe: 10/26 00:01:06 1959kN >1.Db4+ Ke8 2.Sxe5 a5 3.Dd6 Sb5 4.Dxb8 Sxc3 5.Dxa8 Se2+ 6.Txe2 > +- (1.76) Tiefe: 11/32 00:02:18 4217kN Well, an interesting position as a part of a mosaic for S7 strength, no more no less. At least I think Shredder has become stronger in tactics when it was long known as an endgame 'master'. OTH I am sure Junior7 will have such scores also but it is known for optimistic evaluation in attacking positions. Tao 5.4 with around 80MB hash on a mere PIII 650: (WB output, first number = time in ms) first steady positive score at depth 7 after around 7 seconds, +0.73 score after 208 sec. 15760 --first : Ok[go] 15760 --first : TargetTime set[217681] 16580 --first : 1. 23 820 203 d4e5 16580 --first : 2 -57 820 497 d4e5 e7e8 16580 --first : 2 -57 820 533 g3h4!! 16580 --first : 2 -36 820 1129 g3h4 e7e8 d4e5 16580 --first : 2 -36 820 1163 b3b4!! 16580 --first : 2 -28 820 1769 b3b4 e7e8 d4e5 16640 --first : 2 -28 820 2185 g3e5!! 16640 --first : 2 5 820 2353 g3e5 f8g8 16640 --first : 2. 5 880 3065 g3e5 f8g8 16640 --first : 3 12 880 3406 g3e5 g7e5 d4e5 16640 --first : 3. 12 880 6703 g3e5 g7e5 d4e5 16640 --first : 4 -50 880 7450 g3e5 g7e5 f3e5 e7e8 16640 --first : 4 -50 880 8008 b3b4!! 16800 --first : 4 -28 990 27934 b3b4 e7e8 g3e5 g7e5 d4e5 16970 --first : 4 -28 1210 64222 f3e5!! 16970 --first : 4 -22 1210 65833 f3e5 e7e8 e5c4 c8e6 c4d6 e8e7 16970 --first : 4. -22 1210 66395 f3e5 e7e8 e5c4 c8e6 c4d6 e8e7 17020 --first : 5 -22 1260 68941 f3e5 e7e8 e5c4 c8e6 c4d6 e8e7 17080 --first : 5 -22 1260 74555 b3b4!! 17130 --first : 5 -18 1320 80480 b3b4 e7e8 g3h4 g6g5 h4g5 f7f6 g5h4 17740 --first : 5. -18 1980 207996 b3b4 e7e8 g3h4 g6g5 h4g5 f7f6 g5h4 18120 --first : 6 -21 2360 277432 b3b4 e7e8 f3e5 a7a5 b4d6 c7a6 d6a3 19990 --first : 6 -21 4230 639769 g3h4!! 20370 --first : 6 -21 4610 708413 f3e5!! 20870 --first : 6 -1 5110 793153 f3e5 f7f6 e5c4 e7d8 d4d5 c8d7 d5c6 b7c6 20980 --first : 6. -1 5160 812393 f3e5 f7f6 e5c4 e7d8 d4d5 c8d7 d5c6 b7c6 22460 --first : 7 12 6650 1052823 f3e5 f7f6 b3b4 e7e8 e5c4 h8f7 e4e5 f6e5 d4e5 23780 --first : 7. 12 8020 1316630 f3e5 f7f6 b3b4 e7e8 e5c4 h8f7 e4e5 f6e5 d4e5 26860 --first : 8 30 11040 1789180 f3e5 f7f6 b3b4 e7e8 e5f3 h8f7 e4e5 f6f5 e5e6 30370 --first : 8. 30 14610 2487241 f3e5 f7f6 b3b4 e7e8 e5f3 h8f7 e4e5 f6f5 e5e6 37070 --first : 9 24 21310 3634027 f3e5 f7f6 e5c4 e7d8 d4d5 c8d7 d5d6 c7e6 f2f4 45970 --first : 9. 24 30150 5411513 f3e5 f7f6 e5c4 e7d8 d4d5 c8d7 d5d6 c7e6 f2f4 66180 --first : 10 26 50370 9087779 f3e5 f7f6 e5f3 e7d8 d4d5 c8d7 f3d4 c6d5 e4d5 d8c8 80520 --first : 10 26 64760 11519298 d4d5!! 93260 --first : 10 43 77450 13608066 d4d5 c7e8 d5c6 b7c6 b3a3 e8d6 f3e5 g7e5 g3e5 f8d8 a3c5 119680 --first : 10. 43 103860 18836789 d4d5 c7e8 d5c6 b7c6 b3a3 e8d6 f3e5 g7e5 g3e5 f8d8 a3c5 165050 --first : 11 45 149290 27276511 d4d5 c7b5 c3c4 b5d6 c4c5 d6b5 d5d6 e7d8 f3e5 f7f6 g3h4 g7h6 178720 --first : 11 45 162910 29522568 f3e5!! 223820 --first : 11 73 208060 37671574 f3e5 e7e8 d4d5 g7e5 g3e5 c8d7 e5f6 c7a6 b3a3 c6c5 d5d6 b8c8 Regards, Günther
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