Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: move ordering

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 23:24:12 05/11/03

Go up one level in this thread


On May 12, 2003 at 02:03:05, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On May 11, 2003 at 12:14:18, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 11, 2003 at 10:21:12, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On May 11, 2003 at 07:19:04, Tim Foden wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 10, 2003 at 21:23:00, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 10, 2003 at 20:32:10, Matthias Gemuh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 10, 2003 at 17:49:01, Mike Siler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When Sjeng finishes a search, it displays among its stats a move ordering
>>>>>>>percentage. Does anyone know how this is calculate?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In most programs, it is the ratio FailHigh_on_fist_move/All_FailHighs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Why not use a more general figure:
>>>>>ratio of "first move being the best" / "all (interior) nodes" ?
>>>>
>>>>I think this is because there are generally 2 types of interior nodes... one's
>>>>that do fail-high, and ones that don't fail-high.
>>>>
>>>>In the ones that fail-high, we are very interested on the fail-high happening on
>>>>the first move.
>>>>
>>>>In the ones that don't fail-high, we generally fail-low (due to alpha+1=beta),
>>>>we don't (in general) have a best move.  And it will make hardly any difference
>>>>what order we search the moves in, as we will have to look at them all anyway.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That's true, but my point is that we shouldn't confine the figure only to
>>>fail-high cases, but also consider other nodes which produce a best move.
>>>Anyway, the total figure will not vary significantly.
>>
>>I do not understand how do you know if a move is the best during a normal
>>search.
>>
>>Some facts:
>>1)If the first move fail high it does not mean that it is the best move and the
>>program only knows about a move that is good enough to refute the opponent move
>>and does not search for the best move that does it.
>
>Well, it means that the move ordering was also "good enough" :)

Not for me.

There is a difference because I have pruning rules that are based also on
evaluation and if I choose a better move first then I will probably need less
nodes to refute the opponent move.

I think that even for programs with only null move pruning starting with a
better move will give less nodes in most of the cases.

Uri



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.