Author: Martin Giepmans
Date: 14:03:01 05/13/03
Go up one level in this thread
On May 13, 2003 at 16:48:15, Uri Blass wrote:
>On May 13, 2003 at 16:24:11, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 13, 2003 at 15:57:52, Jaime Benito de Valle Ruiz wrote:
>>
>>>On May 13, 2003 at 15:18:22, Martin Giepmans wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>From a game Ruffian - SpiderChess
>>>>
>>>>[D]8/7p/p2k4/1p4p1/4K1P1/P6P/8/8 b - - 0 50
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In this position SpiderChess played 50 .. Kc5? (it should have played
>>>>Ke6 Kd4 a5 -+) and thought it was winning.
>>>>
>>>>The game continued:
>>>>51. Kf5 Kc4 52. Kxg5 Kb3 53. Kh6 Kxa3 54. Kxh7 b4 55. h4 b3 56. g5 b2
>>>>57. h5 b1=Q+ 58. g6 Qe4 59. h6 a5 60. Kg7 Qe7+ 61. Kh8 Qf8+ 62. Kh7 Qf5 63.
>>>>Kg7 Kb3 64. h7 Qe5+ 65. Kg8 Qe8+ 66. Kg7 Qe7+ 67. Kg8 Qd8+ 68. Kg7 Qc7+ 69.
>>>>Kg8 Qc8+ 70. Kg7 Qc3+ 71. Kg8 Qc4+ 72. Kg7 Qd4+ 73. Kg8 Qd5+ 74. Kg7 Qb7+
>>>>75. Kg8 Qa8+ 76. Kg7 Qa7+ 77. Kg8 Qb6 78. Kg7 Kc2 79. h8=Q Qd4+ 80. Kg8
>>>>Qd5+ 81. Kh7 Qh5+ 82. Kg7 Qe5+ 83. Kh7 Qh5+ 84. Kg7 Qe5+ 85. Kh7 Qh2+ 86.
>>>>Kg8 Qb8+ 87. Kh7 Qh2+ 88. Kg7 Qc7+ 89. Kh6 Qf4+ 90. Kh7 Qh4+ 91. Kg7 Qe7+
>>>>92. Kh6 Qe3+ 93. Kh7 Qh3+ 94. Kg8 Qb3+ 95. Kf8 Qb8+ 96. Kg7 Qb7+ 97. Kh6
>>>>Qh1+ 98. Kg7 Qb7+ 99. Kh6 Qh1+ 100. Kg7 Qb7+ 101. Kh6 Qh1+ 102. Kg7 Qb7+
>>>>{Drawn by repetition} 1/2-1/2.
>>>>
>>>>How do other engines fare?
>>>>
>>>>Martin
>>>
>>>I don't see any draw anywhere. Black will easily win even after Kc5!
>>>
>>>Anyway, Fritz 8 for example, gives a score of more than 8 pawns to black from
>>>the beginning; that's more than enough for me.
>>
>>Not for me.
>>There are positions when a score of more than +8 pawns means a draw.
>>
>>>After move 63...., Kb3, Fritz's score drops 6 pawns!!!! (that's what I call a
>>>bad move). Once White makes h7, the situation gets too close to a draw, although
>>>I haven't analysed it yet.
>>
>>And how do you prevent h7 or g7?
>>
>>You can give a lot of checks but I do not see how do they help
>>
>>White only needs to be careful not to put both pawns at h7,g7 and lose because
>>of zugzwang.
>>
>>Shredder see a score of more than +10 but cannot do a progress against me.
>>
>>[Event "Blitz:25'"]
>>[Site "eim"]
>>[Date "????.??.??"]
>>[Round "?"]
>>[White "w"]
>>[Black "Shredder 7.04"]
>>[Result "*"]
>>[SetUp "1"]
>>[FEN "8/7p/p2k4/1p4p1/4K1P1/P6P/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
>>[PlyCount "47"]
>>[TimeControl "1500"]
>>
>>1... Kc5 2. Kf5 Kc4 3. Kxg5 Kb3 4. Kh6 Kxa3 5. Kxh7 b4 6. h4 b3 7. g5 b2 8. h5
>>b1=Q+ 9. g6 Qe4 10. h6 a5 11. Kg7 Qe7+ 12. Kh8 Qf8+ 13. Kh7 Qf5 14. Kg7 Qd7+ {
>>[%emt 0:00:26]} 15. Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qc8+ {[%emt 0:00:34]} 16. Kg7 {
>>[%emt 0:00:31]} Qc3+ {[%emt 0:00:06]} 17. Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:39]} Kb4 {
>>[%emt 0:00:00]} 18. g7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} Qc7 {[%emt 0:01:04]} 19. Kh8 {
>>[%emt 0:00:03]} Qf4 {[%emt 0:01:03]} 20. Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:11]} Qf5+ {
>>[%emt 0:00:49]} 21. Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:05]} Qe5 {[%emt 0:00:53]} 22. Kh7 {
>>[%emt 0:00:09]} Qc7 {[%emt 0:00:46]} 23. Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:41]} Qd6 {
>>[%emt 0:00:54]} 24. Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:09]} Qe7 {[%emt 0:00:42]} *
>>
>>
>>
>>Uri
>
>The game was finished in a draw.
>I admit that I looked at the analysis of shredder during the game but
>the point of the game was not to check if I can draw with shredder but to check
>if the move that was described as bad move was really bad.
>
>[Event "Blitz:25'"]
>[Site "eim"]
>[Date "????.??.??"]
>[Round "?"]
>[White "w"]
>[Black "Shredder 7.04"]
>[Result "1/2-1/2"]
>[SetUp "1"]
>[FEN "8/7p/p2k4/1p4p1/4K1P1/P6P/8/8 b - - 0 1"]
>[PlyCount "128"]
>[TimeControl "1500"]
>
>1... Kc5 2. Kf5 Kc4 3. Kxg5 Kb3 4. Kh6 Kxa3 5. Kxh7 b4 6. h4 b3 7. g5 b2 8. h5
>b1=Q+ 9. g6 Qe4 10. h6 a5 11. Kg7 Qe7+ 12. Kh8 Qf8+ 13. Kh7 Qf5 14. Kg7 Qd7+ {
>[%emt 0:00:26]} 15. Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qc8+ {[%emt 0:00:34]} 16. Kg7 {
>[%emt 0:00:31]} Qc3+ {[%emt 0:00:06]} 17. Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:39]} Kb4 {
>[%emt 0:00:00]} 18. g7 {[%emt 0:00:02]} Qc7 {[%emt 0:01:04]} 19. Kh8 {
>[%emt 0:00:03]} Qf4 {[%emt 0:01:03]} 20. Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:11]} Qf5+ {
>[%emt 0:00:49]} 21. Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:05]} Qe5 {[%emt 0:00:53]} 22. Kh7 {
>[%emt 0:00:09]} Qc7 {[%emt 0:00:46]} 23. Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:41]} Qd6 {
>[%emt 0:00:54]} 24. Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:09]} Qe7 {[%emt 0:00:42]} 25. Kh8 {
>[%emt 0:01:16]} Qf6 {[%emt 0:02:48]} 26. Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:43]} Qf5+ {
>[%emt 0:00:00]} 27. Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:07]} Qe5 {[%emt 0:00:13]} 28. Kh7 {
>[%emt 0:00:03]} Qe7 {[%emt 0:00:44]} 29. Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qd6 {
>[%emt 0:00:14]} 30. Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:04]} Qd3+ {[%emt 0:00:18]} 31. Kh8 {
>[%emt 0:00:04]} Qg6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 32. h7 {[%emt 0:00:20]} Qf6 {
>[%emt 0:00:00]} 33. Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:01]} Qe6+ {[%emt 0:00:12]} 34. Kf8 {
>[%emt 0:00:07]} Qf6+ {[%emt 0:00:30]} 35. Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:04]} Qd8+ {
>[%emt 0:06:28]} 36. Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:09]} Qd7+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} 37. Kf8 {
>[%emt 0:00:12]} Qf5+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} 38. Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qe6+ {
>[%emt 0:00:04]} 39. Kf8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qf5+ {[%emt 0:00:06]} 40. Kg8 {
>[%emt 0:00:02]} Qc8+ {[%emt 0:00:08]} 41. Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:04]} Qc7+ {
>[%emt 0:00:03]} 42. Kf8 {[%emt 0:00:05]} Qc5+ {[%emt 0:00:02]} 43. Kg8 {
>[%emt 0:00:04]} Qc8+ {[%emt 0:00:05]} 44. Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qc4+ {
>[%emt 0:00:15]} 45. Kf8 {[%emt 0:00:06]} Qc5+ {[%emt 0:00:11]} 46. Kg8 {
>[%emt 0:00:03]} Qc4+ {[%emt 0:00:03]} 47. Kf8 {[%emt 0:00:25]} Qf4+ {
>[%emt 0:00:00]} 48. Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} Qb8+ {[%emt 0:00:05]} 49. Kf7 {
>[%emt 0:00:01]} Qb7+ {[%emt 0:00:15]} 50. Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:07]} Qd5+ {
>[%emt 0:00:06]} 51. Kf8 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qd6+ {[%emt 0:01:09]} 52. Kf7 {
>[%emt 0:00:02]} Qd5+ {[%emt 0:00:05]} 53. Kf8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} Qd8+ {
>[%emt 0:00:03]} 54. Kf7 {[%emt 0:00:01]} Qc7+ {[%emt 0:00:15]} 55. Kf8 {
>[%emt 0:00:05]} Qf4+ {[%emt 0:00:01]} 56. Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:05]} Kc5 {
>[%emt 0:00:01]} 57. h8=Q {[%emt 0:00:07]} Qc4+ {[%emt 0:00:00]} 58. Kf8 {
>[%emt 0:00:05]} Qf4+ {[%emt 0:00:01]} 59. Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:22]} Qb8+ {
>[%emt 0:00:00]} 60. Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:04]} Qb1+ {[%emt 0:00:02]} 61. Kh6 {
>[%emt 0:00:03]} Qh1+ {[%emt 0:00:03]} 62. Kg5 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qg2+ {
>[%emt 0:00:03]} 63. Kf5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} Qf3+ {[%emt 0:00:09]} 64. Kg5 {
>[%emt 0:00:03]} Qg2+ {[%emt 0:00:01]} 65. Kf6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 1/2-1/2
>
>Uri
It seems that the other posters who said that Kc5 is not the real error
are right. Black should play a5 instead of Kc5c4 and Kc4b3.
SpiderChess played without tablebases.
They would probably have helped here.
Martin
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