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Subject: Re: Ruffian's blind spot

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 00:15:20 05/20/03

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On May 20, 2003 at 02:17:14, Tim Foden wrote:

>On May 19, 2003 at 23:46:58, Will Singleton wrote:
>
>>I was trying to figure out why my latest build doesn't do quite as well on
>>ecm86, and I ran Ruffian on it.  To my surprise, Ruffian couldn't solve it, even
>>given 5 minutes.  This is odd, since most other progs can do it in less than 10
>>seconds.  (What I take away from this exercise is that my program must now be
>>stronger.  Otherwise, I'd have to work on the problem, which is much less
>>interesting than testing new ideas.)
>>
>>[D]2r3k1/1nqbrp2/p5pp/1p1Pp1N1/8/1P5P/P1B2PP1/2RQR1K1 w - -
>
>I would assume then (from running Green Light), that Nxf7 is the correct move
>here?
>
>The PV is interesting as it contains 9 captures in a row at the start of the PV.
> Maybe ruffian is pruning if there are more than a certain number of captures in
>a row (as this is very unlikely to be a good thing).
>
>Cheers, Tim.
>
>Analysis:  GLC3.00, AXP 1.47GHz, 24MB Hash:
>
> Game stage: Middle game
> Current eval: 0.564
> Ply   Time   Score   Nodes  Principal variation
>  4   0.000  +0.743    5646  Ne4 Qb6 2. Qd2 g5
>  5   0.010  +0.592   13917  Ne4 Nd6 2. Nf6+ Kg7 3. Qf3 Kh8
>  5   0.020  +0.592   21231  Ne4 Nd6 2. Nf6+ Kg7 3. Qf3 Kh8
>  6   0.060  +0.702   54001  Ne4 Qb6 2. Qd2 g5 3. Qb4 Nc5
>  6   0.070  +0.702   66151  Ne4 Qb6 2. Qd2 g5 3. Qb4 Nc5
>  7   0.200  +0.709  159535  Ne4 Qb6 2. Bd3 Ree8 3. Qd2 g5 4. Nc3
>  7   0.310  +1.102  263663  Nxf7 {++} Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+
>                               Kxf7 5. Rxc1
>  7   0.360  +1.745  307058  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1
>  7   0.370  +1.745  316180  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1
>  8   0.440  +1.345  388531  Nxf7 {--} Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+
>                               Kxf7 5. Rxc1 Nd6
>  8   0.530  +1.186  460490  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6
>  8   0.580  +1.186  527044  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6
>  9   0.841  +1.259  749293  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7
>  9   1.081  +1.259  966741  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7
> 10   1.712  +1.299 1514631  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke7
> 10   2.093  +1.299 1853467  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke7
> 11   3.985  +1.340 3477228  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke7 7. g4
> 11   5.377  +1.340 4753269  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke7 7. g4
> 12   8.251  +1.405 7132424  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke8 7. Ra7 Bc8
> 12  11.666  +1.405  10151k  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke8 7. Ra7 Bc8
> 13  19.798  +1.603  16605k  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke8 7. Ra7 Bc8 8. Rc7
> 13  25.416  +1.603  21432k  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke8 7. Ra7 Bc8 8. Rc7
> 14  40.958  +1.591  33530k  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke8 7. Ra7 Bc8 8. Rh7 Nf7
> 14  58.534  +1.591  49298k  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke8 7. Ra7 Bc8 8. Rh7 Nf7
> 15 1:50.67  +1.731  89853k  Nxf7 Rxf7 2. Bxg6 Qxc1 3. Qxc1 Rxc1 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7
>                               5. Rxc1 Nd6 6. Rc7 Ke8 7. Ra7 Bc8 8. Rh7 Nf7 9.
>                               Rg7

The pv of movei include only 6 captures even after a long search.
I do not think that it is a good idea to prune big number of captures in a row.

New game
2r3k1/1nqbrp2/p5pp/1p1Pp1N1/8/1P5P/P1B2PP1/2RQR1K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Movei00_8_068:

1.Nxf7
  ²  (0.52)   Depth: 8   00:00:03  504kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kg7 4.Qxc1 Rxc1 5.Rxc1 Kxf7
  ²  (0.64)   Depth: 8   00:00:03  548kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kg7 4.Qxc1 Rxc1 5.Rxc1 Kxf7
  ²  (0.64)   Depth: 8   00:00:04  597kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kg7 5.Qxe5+ Kg6 6.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 7.Kh2
Rc2 8.d6
  ±  (0.85)   Depth: 9   00:00:04  705kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kg7 5.Qxe5+ Kg6 6.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 7.Kh2
Rc2 8.d6
  ±  (0.85)   Depth: 9   00:00:06  900kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kg7 5.Qxe5+ Kg6 6.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 7.Kh2
Rc2 8.Qg3+ Kf7 9.Qf4+ Kg6
  ±  (0.86)   Depth: 10   00:00:07  1147kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kg7 5.Qxe5+ Kg6 6.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 7.Kh2
Rc2 8.Qg3+ Kf7 9.Qf4+ Kg6
  ±  (0.86)   Depth: 10   00:00:10  1594kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kg7 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Re1 7.Qh4 Kf7
8.Qxh6 Nc5
  ±  (1.04)   Depth: 11   00:00:15  2436kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kg7 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Re1 7.Qh4 Kf7
8.Qxh6 Nc5
  ±  (1.04)   Depth: 11   00:00:21  3445kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kg7 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Rc2 7.Qxe5+
Kg6 8.Kg3 Kf7 9.Qf4+ Kg6 10.d6
  ±  (1.06)   Depth: 12   00:00:34  5594kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kg7 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Rc2 7.Qxe5+
Kg6 8.Kg3 Kf7 9.Qf4+ Kg6 10.d6
  ±  (1.06)   Depth: 12   00:00:49  7973kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kf6 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Rc5 7.Qxh6+
Ke7 8.Qb6 Bc8 9.d6+ Ke6 10.g4 Rc2
  +-  (1.74)   Depth: 13   00:04:33  39490kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kf6 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Rc5 7.Qxh6+
Ke7 8.Qb6 Bc8 9.d6+ Ke6 10.g4 Rc2
  +-  (1.74)   Depth: 13   00:05:00  44182kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kf8 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Rc5 7.b4 Rc4
8.Qxh6+ Ke7 9.g4 Bc8 10.Kg3 Nd6 11.Qg5+ Kd7 12.Qxe5 Rxb4
  +-  (1.85)   Depth: 14   00:08:29  73397kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kf8 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Rc5 7.b4 Rc4
8.Qxh6+ Ke7 9.g4 Bc8 10.Kg3 Nd6 11.Qg5+ Kd7 12.Qxe5 Rxb4
  +-  (1.85)   Depth: 14   00:09:37  85315kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kf8 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Rc5 7.Qxe5
Kf7 8.Qf4+ Kg7 9.Qg3+ Kh7 10.Qd3+ Kg7 11.Qe4 Bc8 12.Qe5+ Kf7 13.Kg3
  +-  (1.88)   Depth: 15   00:16:51  151019kN
1.Nxf7 Rxf7 2.Bxg6 Qxc1 3.Bxf7+ Kxf7 4.Qh5+ Kf8 5.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 6.Kh2 Rc5 7.Qxe5
Kf7 8.Qf4+ Kg7 9.Qg3+ Kh7 10.Qd3+ Kg7 11.Qe4 Bc8 12.Qe5+ Kf7 13.Kg3
  +-  (1.88)   Depth: 15   00:20:26  187819kN

(, eim 20.05.2003)


Uri



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