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Subject: Re: Minority attack: a problem even for new programs?

Author: Moritz Berger

Date: 11:41:58 10/17/98

Go up one level in this thread


Junior 5 doesn't find the thematical Karlsbad moves (analysis in the quoted
text). It finds b4 in position 2b) but discards it after a while. All times
Junior 5.0 on PII-450 128MB HT.

Moritz ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤øø¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸

On October 17, 1998 at 13:25:20, Dirk Frickenschmidt wrote:

>
>Years ago I wondered why only very few of the dedicated computers were able to
>play a so-called minority attack: this is a combined pawns and pieces attack
>against the so-called Karlsbad pawn structure a7b7c6d5, most commonly known from
>the Queen's Gambit Declined, exchange variation (examples of the below), but
>also occuring elsewhere. It often is a useful attacking weapon to push the white
>b-pawn to b5 to threaten to give black a hanging pawn on c6 and play on this and
>the black squares (c5 etc) and the b-file (possibly 6th/7th row)afterwards.
>
>When after a long time I now checked two fundamental test positions,  still
>within the opening, with some newer programs (on MMX200 at tournament time), I
>was surprised to see that not much seems to have changed: many of the programs
>still play nonsense moves like Rac1 or even Rfc1 to get an half-open c-file,
>which is of no big use for them.
>
>My question is, which of the newer programs are able to play minority attacks,
>without getting the usual moves from their opening books (so you will have to
>turn opening books of in my test positions)?
>
>Here are the two positions:
>
>Position 1 [D36] (Instructive sample game: Ftacnik-Ivanchuk, Moscow 1994, with a
>draw but quite interesting possible variations on both sides)
>1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.Qc2 Be7 7.e3 Nbd7 8.Bd3 0-0
>9.Nf3 Re8 10.0-0 Nf8, and which program will play
>a) 11.Rab1 and after g6

Karlsbad 1
r1bqrnk1/pp2bppp/2p2n2/3p2B1/3P4/2NBPN2/PPQ2PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Junior 5.0:

11.Bf4 Bg4
  ²  (0.37)   depth: 3   00:00:00  0kN
11.Bf4 Ne6 12.Bg3
  =  (0.19)   depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
11.Ne5 Ng6 12.Rac1 Nxe5
  ²  (0.33)   depth: 6   00:00:00  2kN
11.Ne5 Ng6 12.Rac1 Nxe5
  ²  (0.33)   depth: 6   00:00:00  6kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.Bf4 Ng4 13.Nxg4 Bxg4 14.Bxd6 Qxd6
  =  (0.14)   depth: 9   00:00:00  46kN
11.a4 Ng6 12.Rfc1 Qd6 13.b3
  =  (0.23)   depth: 9   00:00:01  74kN
11.Rac1 Ng6 12.Ne5 Qd6
  ²  (0.27)   depth: 9   00:00:01  144kN
11.Rac1 Ng6 12.Ne5 Qd6
  ²  (0.27)   depth: 9   00:00:01  158kN
11.Rac1 Ng6 12.Ne5 Bd6 13.Nxg6 hxg6 14.a4 Bg4
  =  (0.20)   depth: 12   00:00:01  360kN
11.Rfc1 Ng6 12.a4 Qd6
  =  (0.21)   depth: 12   00:00:04  1419kN
11.Rfc1 Ng6 12.a4 Qd6
  =  (0.21)   depth: 12   00:00:04  1534kN
11.Rfc1 Ng6 12.Ne5 Bd6 13.f4 a5 14.Qd1 Bd7
  =  (0.19)   depth: 15   00:00:13  4823kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 h6 13.Bh4 Qb6 14.Rae1 Ng4 15.h3 Bxe5 16.fxe5
  =  (0.21)   depth: 15   00:00:45  16411kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 h6 13.Bh4 Qb6 14.Rae1 Ng4 15.h3 Bxe5 16.fxe5
  =  (0.21)   depth: 15   00:00:56  20055kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 h6 13.Bh4 Be7 14.Qd1 Qc7 15.f5 Ne4
  =  (0.14)   depth: 17   00:01:56  40146kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 h6 13.Bh4 Be7 14.Qd1 Qc7 15.f5 Ne4
  =  (0.14)   depth: 17   00:04:23  90510kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 Ng6 13.Rac1 Qb6 14.Na4 Qc7 15.h3 Nd7 16.Nc3
  =  (0.14)   depth: 18   00:06:44  137914kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 Ng6 13.Rac1 Qb6 14.Na4 Qc7 15.h3 Nd7 16.Nc3
  =  (0.14)   depth: 18   00:12:01  244053kN
11.Ne5 Ng6 12.Rac1 Nd7 13.Bxe7 Qxe7 14.Nxg6 hxg6 15.a3 Qh4 16.Qd1 a5
  =  (0.13)   depth: 19   00:18:42  376097kN



>b) 12.b4

r1bqrnk1/pp2bp1p/2p2np1/3p2B1/3P4/2NBPN2/PPQ2PPP/1R3RK1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Junior 5.0:

12.Bh6 Bg4
  ²  (0.50)   depth: 3   00:00:00  0kN
12.Bh6 Ng4 13.Bf4 g5 14.Be5 Nxe5
  ²  (0.31)   depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
12.Ne5 N8d7 13.Bh6 Nxe5
  ²  (0.49)   depth: 6   00:00:00  3kN
12.Rbc1 Bg4 13.Bh6
  ²  (0.51)   depth: 6   00:00:00  5kN
12.Rbc1 Bg4 13.Bh6
  ²  (0.51)   depth: 6   00:00:00  6kN
12.Rbc1 Ne6 13.Qd1 Nxg5 14.Nxg5 Bg4
  ²  (0.32)   depth: 9   00:00:00  17kN
12.b4 Ne6 13.Rfc1 Nxg5 14.Nxg5 Bg4
  ²  (0.35)   depth: 9   00:00:00  77kN
12.h3 Ne6 13.Bh6 Bd7 14.Ne5
  ²  (0.41)   depth: 9   00:00:00  95kN
12.h3 Ne6 13.Bh6 Bd7 14.Ne5
  ²  (0.41)   depth: 9   00:00:01  132kN
12.h3 Ne6 13.Bh6 Qc7 14.Ne5 c5
  ²  (0.44)   depth: 12   00:00:01  326kN
12.h3 Ne6 13.Bh6 Qc7 14.Ne5 c5
  ²  (0.44)   depth: 12   00:00:03  914kN
12.h3 Ne6 13.Bh6 Bd6 14.Rbc1 Qc7 15.Qd1 Bd7
  ²  (0.38)   depth: 15   00:00:06  2148kN
12.h3 Ne6 13.Bh6 Bd6 14.Rbc1 Qc7 15.Qd1 Bd7
  ²  (0.38)   depth: 15   00:00:31  10389kN
12.h3 Ne6 13.Bh6 a5 14.a3 Qc7 15.Rfc1 Bd6 16.Qd1
  ²  (0.40)   depth: 17   00:00:49  16299kN
12.h3 Ne6 13.Bh6 a5 14.a3 Qc7 15.Rfc1 Bd6 16.Qd1
  ²  (0.40)   depth: 17   00:02:11  40959kN


>by itself?
>
>Position 2 [D36] (Instructive sample game: Smyslow-Keres, WCh18 1948)
>1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 c6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.cxd5 exd5 7.Bd3 Be7 8.Nf3 0-0
>9.Qc2 Re8 10.0-0 Nf8 Again, which program plays
>a) 11.Rab1 and after Ng6

r1bqrnk1/pp2bppp/2p2n2/3p2B1/3P4/2NBPN2/PPQ2PPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Junior 5.0:

11.Bf4 Bg4
  ²  (0.37)   depth: 3   00:00:00  0kN
11.Bf4 Ne6 12.Bg3
  =  (0.19)   depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
11.Ne5 Ng6 12.Rac1 Nxe5
  ²  (0.33)   depth: 6   00:00:00  2kN
11.Ne5 Ng6 12.Rac1 Nxe5
  ²  (0.33)   depth: 6   00:00:00  6kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.Bf4 Ng4 13.Nxg4 Bxg4 14.Bxd6 Qxd6
  =  (0.14)   depth: 9   00:00:00  46kN
11.a4 Ng6 12.Rfc1 Qd6 13.b3
  =  (0.23)   depth: 9   00:00:00  74kN
11.Rac1 Ng6 12.Ne5 Qd6
  ²  (0.27)   depth: 9   00:00:01  144kN
11.Rac1 Ng6 12.Ne5 Qd6
  ²  (0.27)   depth: 9   00:00:01  158kN
11.Rac1 Ng6 12.Ne5 Bd6 13.Nxg6 hxg6 14.a4 Bg4
  =  (0.20)   depth: 12   00:00:01  360kN
11.Rfc1 Ng6 12.a4 Qd6
  =  (0.21)   depth: 12   00:00:04  1419kN
11.Rfc1 Ng6 12.a4 Qd6
  =  (0.21)   depth: 12   00:00:04  1534kN
11.Rfc1 Ng6 12.Ne5 Bd6 13.f4 a5 14.Qd1 Bd7
  =  (0.19)   depth: 15   00:00:13  4823kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 h6 13.Bh4 Qb6 14.Rae1 Ng4 15.h3 Bxe5 16.fxe5
  =  (0.21)   depth: 15   00:00:45  16411kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 h6 13.Bh4 Qb6 14.Rae1 Ng4 15.h3 Bxe5 16.fxe5
  =  (0.21)   depth: 15   00:00:56  20055kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 h6 13.Bh4 Be7 14.Qd1 Qc7 15.f5 Ne4
  =  (0.14)   depth: 17   00:01:56  40146kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 h6 13.Bh4 Be7 14.Qd1 Qc7 15.f5 Ne4
  =  (0.14)   depth: 17   00:04:23  90510kN
11.Ne5 Bd6 12.f4 Ng6 13.Rac1 Qb6 14.Na4 Qc7 15.h3 Nd7 16.Nc3
  =  (0.14)   depth: 18   00:06:44  137914kN

>b) 12.b4
>by itself?

r1bqr1k1/pp2bppp/2p2nn1/3p2B1/3P4/2NBPN2/PPQ2PPP/1R3RK1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Junior 5.0:

12.Rbc1 Bg4
  =  (0.12)   depth: 3   00:00:00  0kN
12.Rbc1 Bg4 13.Ne5 Nxe5
  =  (0.08)   depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
12.Rbc1 Bg4 13.Ne5 Nxe5
  =  (0.08)   depth: 6   00:00:00  7kN
12.Rbc1 Be6 13.Ne5 Qd6 14.Nxg6 hxg6
  =  (0.06)   depth: 9   00:00:00  41kN
12.Rbc1 Be6 13.Ne5 Qd6 14.Nxg6 hxg6
  =  (0.06)   depth: 9   00:00:01  186kN
12.Rbc1 Qd6 13.Bxg6 hxg6 14.Bf4 Qd8 15.Qb3 Ng4
  =  (0.02)   depth: 12   00:00:01  552kN
12.Ne5 Nh5 13.Bxe7 Qxe7 14.Nf3 Bg4 15.Bxg6 hxg6 16.Ne5
  =  (0.08)   depth: 12   00:00:04  1416kN
12.b4 a6 13.a4 Qb6 14.a5 Qc7 15.Rfc1
  =  (0.10)   depth: 12   00:00:06  2237kN
12.b4 a6 13.a4 Qb6 14.a5 Qc7 15.Rfc1
  =  (0.10)   depth: 12   00:00:08  3098kN
12.b4 a6 13.Ne5 Bd6 14.f4 Qe7 15.a3 Bg4
  =  (0.10)   depth: 14   00:00:12  4803kN
12.b4 a6 13.Ne5 Bd6 14.f4 Qe7 15.a3 Bg4
  =  (0.10)   depth: 14   00:00:36  14142kN
12.b4 a6 13.a4 Be6 14.Rfc1 Qb6 15.Qb3 Qc7
  =  (0.09)   depth: 16   00:00:57  22031kN
12.b4 a6 13.a4 Be6 14.Rfc1 Qb6 15.Qb3 Qc7
  =  (0.09)   depth: 16   00:02:22  53046kN
12.b4 a6 13.a4 Be6 14.Ne5 Bd6 15.Rfc1 Nxe5 16.dxe5 Bxe5 17.Bxh7+ Kh8
  =  (0.07)   depth: 17   00:03:11  70387kN
12.Rbc1 a5 13.Ne5 Bd6 14.f4 Be7 15.Qd1 Nxe5 16.fxe5 Bg4 17.Be2 Ne4
  =  (0.08)   depth: 17   00:06:51  148281kN





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