Author: Eran
Date: 14:01:31 10/17/98
Go up one level in this thread
On October 17, 1998 at 16:48:24, Dirk Frickenschmidt wrote: >On October 17, 1998 at 15:00:57, Eran wrote: > >Hi Eran, > >to say it in plain English(as far as a German can do) :-) > > >1) I can not make your decision, only give you personal impressions (no definite >result about playing strength based on 500 games or so). > >2) I have begun testing Rebel 10 as well since short and will soon perform a >little 10 games welcome tournament here too. But that's not enough for final >judgements. > >3) What I like about Junior5's playing style: >- it plays positional chess with a lot of pressure in many games and in all >phases of the game. Even it's losing games are most times enterprising games. >It often came up with really surprising moves and plans both in attack and >defense. I have a faible for about this kind of inventive chess since I learned >to play, no matter if humans or computers play it. > >4) What I like about Rebel10's playing style: >- Rebel10 from my view plays less blundering moves than maybe *any* other >program I know. It often plays a calm and steady, but very effective style, >often underestimated especially by humans. Looking at the games against humans I >always have the phantasy that they so to say wondered how they got into trouble >at some point in the game. Ed's programs have been especially successful in >human games above blitz and fast levels for quite a while. Just look at the >Aegon performances during the last years and have a look at the playing style of >these games: Rebel10 is a further improvement in that direction as fast as I can >see (not just for it's impressive performance against Anand). > >5) Concerning Computer-computer playing strength: I am convinced that Junior5 >and Rebel10 will both play for the No.1 in the SSDF list. And I guess they soon >will both see a third dangerous opponent with Hiarcs7. > >So I cannot make any decision for you. >I recommend you get as many games as already available from both Rebel10 and >Junior5 and decide according to your personal taste. I am sure that pure playing >*strength* will not be the main argument with two programs so close and so >strong. Look what you like most and have fun with it. > >Regards >from Dirk > > >>On October 17, 1998 at 13:59:08, Dirk Frickenschmidt wrote: >> >>>On October 17, 1998 at 04:57:00, Alessio Iacovoni wrote: >>> >>>Hi Alessio, >>> >>>as Christophe Theron rightly claimed, it is not too decisive *how* a program >>>reaches its playing strength, although fast searchers with strong tactics like >>>Fritz5 or Junior5 are always convenient for a first tactical check when >>>analyzing games. >>> >>>The thing I wonder about is your impression that Junior5 plays weak positionally >>>while being fast: you know the old picture of the "stupid bean counters", which >>>is still used by some. >>> >>>Now I did a lot of testing with Junior5 on a 200MMX, and I got just the opposite >>>impression of what you got: >>>while admittedly blundering just like any program I know from time to time (this >>>definitely includes the so-called knowledge programs as well, and not only for >>>tactical reasons but also for occasional weak positional play), I was *very* >>>impressed by the versatile overall positional competence of Junior in all kinds >>>of positions from opening to endgame. >>> >>>Perhaps you can post some of the weak moves you saw to make your point more >>>concrete. Amir and Shay especially and anybody else using Junior will probably >>>be interested. >>> >>>I am too: its always nice to know more about an interesting program. >>> >>>Regards >>>from Dirk >>> >>> >>>>Gambisoft posts: >>>> >>>>"Customers report unisono that JUNIOR 5 runs at top speed. We can >>>>confirm this. With 350 MHz the search depth starts double digit most >>>>of the time!" >>>> >>>>Results of the engine seem to support the claim that it is a very strong engine. >>>>However, when running it against Fritz 5 and especially Hiarcs on Junior >>>>platform I've got the impression that, fast as it may be, it is not intelligent >>>>enough... sometimes it seems to make moves that not even a patzer would make. >>>> >>>>It may go 2 or 3 plies ahead of Crafty or Fritz.. but at the detriment of >>>>position and basic chess rules. >> >>Dirk, >> >>Some recent posts here in the CCC about Junior5's strength did confuse me a >>little bit. since I am neither a chess programmer nor an expert in chess >>programming, I don't know what the phrase "stupid bean counters" means. Please >>explain it to me. >> >>I have been hesitating for more than a week about whether to buy Junior5 or >>Rebel10 due to my limited budget. Therefore, since I read the recent posts >>about Junior5 and I favor slow games, I cannot know for sure which chess >>program, Junior5 or Rebel10, is truly stronger and better for my playing style. >> >>I will appreciate that if you please explain clearly to me in plain English >>about whether Junior5 is stronger and better than Rebel10 for any player who >>likes to play slow games such as 40/120 ones. >> >>I look forward to reading from your repost in the CCC here. >> >>Thank you, >>Eran
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