Author: Joachim Rang
Date: 15:26:40 05/28/03
Go up one level in this thread
On May 28, 2003 at 17:28:46, John Merlino wrote: >This position is one that was posted many months ago, in which several programs >were able to find Rxh5, and a couple of them were able to announce mate (in 12 >moves or so). CM9000, however, found Qxf4! in less than 20 seconds on a P3-750, >and announced Mate in 10. > >[D]4r1k1/qp1r1p2/2pb1Bp1/p6p/2PP1n1R/1P3P2/P4P2/2Q2K1R w > >Time Depth Score Positions Moves >0:00 1/3 -1.80 2438 1.Rxf4 Bxf4 2.Qxf4 Re6 3.Be5 b6 >0:00 1/4 -1.26 7609 1.Rxf4 Bxf4 2.Qxf4 Re6 3.Be5 Kh7 > 4.Qg5 >0:00 1/5 -1.26 24204 1.Rxf4 Bxf4 2.Qxf4 Re6 3.Be5 Kh7 > 4.Qg5 >0:01 1/6 -1.43 107926 1.Rxf4 Re6 2.Rf5 Rxf6 3.Rxf6 Qxd4 > 4.Qg5 Be5 >0:01 1/6 1.34 140417 1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.Qxf4 Re1+ 3.Kxe1 > Re7+ 4.Be5 Bxe5 5.Qg5+ Kf8 6.dxe5 >0:02 1/7 2.28 201244 1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.Qxf4 Re1+ 3.Kxe1 > Re7+ 4.Be5 Bxe5 5.dxe5 Rd7 6.Qg5+ > Kf8 7.Rxh5 >0:07 1/8 9.09 709292 1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.Qxf4 Re1+ 3.Kxe1 > Re7+ 4.Kf1 Re1+ 5.Kxe1 Bb4+ 6.Kf1 > Kf8 7.Rxh5 >0:11 1/8 13.43 1045981 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kxe1 Bxf4 3.Rxh5 > Re7+ 4.Kf1 Re1+ 5.Kxe1 Bd2+ 6.Kxd2 > gxh5 7.Rxh5 Qxd4+ 8.Bxd4 Kf8 9.Rxa5 > Ke7 >0:19 1/9 Mate10 1996510 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 > 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ > Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 > Kf8 10.Rh8# >0:19 1/10 Mate10 2090834 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 > 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ > Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 > Kf8 10.Rh8# >0:21 2/11 Mate10 2337348 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 > 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ > Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 > Kf8 10.Rh8# > Shredder 7.04 finds Qxf4 also very quick but does not announce mate. >So, just for fun, I wondered what the situation would be if it were Black to >move in this position. > >[D]4r1k1/qp1r1p2/2pb1Bp1/p6p/2PP1n1R/1P3P2/P4P2/2Q2K1R b > >And I discovered that, at least for The King, finding the relatively obvious (at >least for a patzer like me) move Re6 is much more difficult than I thought it >would be. Instead, The King plays with odd moves like Rde7(??), causing a big >fail low that takes almost three minutes to finally resolve to Re6 on a P3-750. > >Time Depth Score Positions Moves >0:00 1/3 -3.66 1522 1...Qb8 2.Bg5 Nd3 3.Qd2 >0:00 1/4 -3.88 5172 1...Qb8 2.Bg5 Nd3 3.Qd2 Re1+ 4.Kg2 >0:00 1/5 -3.70 20612 1...Qb8 2.Rxh5 gxh5 3.Rxh5 Re1+ > 4.Kxe1 Qe8+ 5.Kf1 Qe2+ 6.Kg1 Nxh5 > 7.Qg5+ Kf8 8.Qxh5 >0:00 1/6 -3.70 77068 1...Qb8 2.Rxh5 gxh5 3.Rxh5 Re1+ > 4.Kxe1 Qe8+ 5.Kf1 Qe2+ 6.Kg1 Nxh5 > 7.Qg5+ Kf8 8.Qxh5 >0:02 1/7 1.06 201524 1...Qb8 2.Qxf4 Bxf4 3.Rxh5 gxh5 > 4.Rxh5 Re1+ 5.Kxe1 Re7+ 6.Kf1 Re1+ > 7.Kxe1 Bd2+ 8.Kf1 Bh6 9.Rxh6 >0:08 1/7 0.85 720744 1...a4 2.Qxf4 Bxf4 3.Rxh5 gxh5 > 4.Rxh5 Re1+ 5.Kxe1 Re7+ 6.Kf1 Re1+ > 7.Kxe1 Bh6 8.Rxh6 Qa5+ 9.Kf1 >0:09 1/7 -2.38 777717 1...Rde7 2.Bxe7 Qxd4 3.Rxf4 Bxf4 > 4.Qe1 b5 >0:12 1/8 -2.86 1048763 1...Rde7 2.Bxe7 Qxd4 3.Rxf4 Bxf4 > 4.Qa3 Qe5 5.Bc5 >0:33 1/9 9.90 3020660 1...Rde7 2.Qxf4 Re1+ 3.Kg2 Qxd4 > 4.Qxd4 Rxh1 5.Rxh1 Re6 6.Rd1 b5 >0:38 1/9 4.53 3499540 1...Rdd8 2.Qxf4 Re1+ 3.Kxe1 Re8+ > 4.Be5 Bxe5 5.dxe5 Qc5 6.Kf1 Rxe5 > 7.Qf6 >2:39 1/9 -1.30 13758757 1...Re2 2.Rxf4 Re6 3.d5 cxd5 4.cxd5 > Rc7 5.Qb2 Qa6+ 6.Kg2 Bxf4 7.dxe6 > Qxe6 >2:45 1/9 -2.09 14425940 1...Re6 2.Rxf4 Bxf4 3.Qxf4 a4 4.bxa4 > Rxf6 5.Qxf6 Rxd4 6.Rh4 Rd2 7.Rh2 > Qxa4 >2:59 1/10 -1.83 15767820 1...Re6 2.Rxf4 Bxf4 3.Qxf4 Qa8 > 4.Kg2 b6 5.Qg5 Qe8 6.d5 cxd5 7.cxd5 > > >Do any other programs have this "problem"? Is it a "problem" at all, or is it >actually a good test position with Black to move? > >jm Shredder 7.04 does even worse! I think it's a good testposition. Shredder 7.04 findes Re6 at depth 13 after 4:33 on a P4 1.6 GHz (!): Engine: Shredder 7 von Stefan Meyer-Kahlen 8/22 0:01 +5.74 1...Db8 2.Da1 Te6 3.Lg5 f6 4.d5 cxd5 5.Lxf4 Lxf4 6.cxd5 Txd5 (236.644) 187.0 9/22 0:02 +5.65 1...Db8 2.Lg5 Se2 3.Db2 Le7 4.Lxe7 Tdxe7 5.Dd2 Dd6 6.Kg2 (488.805) 196.7 10/26 0:03 +5.40-- 1...Db8 2.Txh5 gxh5 3.Txh5 Sxh5 4.Dg5+ Kf8 (746.501) 199.9 10/26 0:03 +4.90-- 1...Db8 2.Txh5 gxh5 3.Txh5 Te2 4.Th8+ (783.749) 200.6 10/30 0:05 +4.02 1...Db8 2.Txh5 gxh5 3.Txh5 Te1+ 4.Kxe1 De8+ 5.Kf1 De2+ 6.Kg1 Sxh5 7.Dg5+ Kf8 8.Dxh5 Ke8 9.Dh8+ Lf8 10.Lg7 De1+ 11.Kg2 (1.221.898) 210.2 11/33 0:12 +4.02 1...Db8 2.Txh5 gxh5 3.Txh5 Te1+ 4.Kxe1 De8+ 5.Kf1 De2+ 6.Kg1 Sxh5 7.Dg5+ Kf8 8.Dxh5 Ke8 9.Dh8+ Lf8 10.Lg7 De1+ 11.Kg2 (2.522.942) 207.0 12/31 0:20 +3.77-- 1...Db8 2.Txh5 gxh5 3.Txh5 Te1+ 4.Kxe1 De8+ 5.Kf1 De2+ 6.Kg1 Sxh5 7.Dg5+ Kf8 8.Dxh5 Ke8 9.Dh8+ Lf8 10.Lg7 Dxf3 11.Dxf8+ (4.076.982) 201.8 12/35 0:31 +3.27-- 1...Db8 2.c5 Te2 3.cxd6 Txf2+ 4.Kxf2 Sd3+ 5.Kg2 Sxc1 6.Txh5 gxh5 7.Txh5 Dxd6 8.Th8+ (6.498.654) 204.8 12/35 1:31 +2.52 1...Db8 2.c5 Te6 3.cxd6 Txf6 4.Txf4 Dxd6 5.Te4 Te6 6.Thh4 Txe4 7.Txe4 Te7 8.Dh6 Txe4 9.fxe4 Dxd4 (18.393.717) 200.0 12/35 1:35 +2.53++ 1...Tde7 2.Lxe7 Dxd4 3.Txf4 Lxf4 4.Kg2 (19.191.046) 200.3 12/35 1:36 +2.88++ 1...Tde7 2.Lxe7 Dxd4 3.Txf4 Lxf4 4.Kg2 Lxc1 5.Txh5 (19.400.940) 200.7 12/37 2:10 +5.63 1...Tde7 2.Lxe7 Dxd4 3.Txf4 Lxf4 4.Da3 De5 5.Th4 g5 6.Txh5 Txe7 7.Kg2 b6 8.Th6 f6 9.Db2 Dxb2 10.Th8+ (26.370.201) 201.6 13/37 2:34 +5.38-- 1...Tde7 2.Dxf4 Lxf4 3.Txh5 Te1+ 4.Kg2 Lh6 5.Txh6 Txh1 6.Txh1 Dxd4 7.Lxd4 b5 8.cxb5 cxb5 (31.186.395) 201.8 13/37 2:42 +4.88-- 1...Tde7 2.Dxf4 Lxf4 3.Txh5 Te1+ 4.Kg2 Lh6 5.Txh6 Txh1 6.Txh1 b6 7.Th8+ (32.919.547) 202.3 13/37 3:37 -11.07 1...Tde7 2.Dxf4 Te1+ 3.Kg2 Dxd4 4.Txe1 Txe1 5.Dxd4 Te6 6.Te4 c5 7.Dc3 b6 8.Txe6 fxe6 9.Dd3 (43.765.544) 201.5 13/37 3:37 -11.06++ 1...Db8 2.c5 (43.806.896) 201.5 13/37 3:38 -10.71++ 1...Db8 2.c5 Lxc5 3.dxc5 Te2 4.Dxf4 Dxf4 5.Txf4 Tdd2 6.Kg1 (44.009.506) 201.2 13/37 4:25 +2.41 1...Db8 2.c5 Te6 3.cxd6 Txf6 4.Txf4 Tfxd6 5.De3 a4 6.bxa4 Da8 (53.223.095) 200.0 13/37 4:33 +2.42++ 1...Te6 2.Txf4 Lxf4 3.Dxf4 a4 4.bxa4 (54.727.272) 200.1 13/37 5:01 +2.71 1...Te6 2.Txf4 a4 3.d5 Lxf4 4.dxe6 Dxf2+ 5.Kxf2 Td2+ 6.Dxd2 Lg3+ 7.Kxg3 (60.168.109) 199.5 14/38 7:14 +2.59 1...Te6 2.Txf4 Lxf4 3.Dxf4 a4 4.bxa4 Txf6 5.Dxf6 Dxd4 6.Dh4 Dc5 7.Df4 Td1+ 8.Kg2 Txh1 9.Db8+ Df8 (85.894.884) 197.8
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