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Subject: Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !?

Author: Mike Byrne

Date: 04:29:35 06/20/03

On June 20, 2003 at 06:15:09, Joachim Rang wrote:

>On June 20, 2003 at 05:05:24, Vincent Lejeune wrote:
>
>>
>>I'm running a test with Chesstiger 15 and the Valentin Albillo test set (see
>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?301806) and what a surprise
>>Chesstiger have a problem with the first position the well known FINE 70 (Kb1!);
>>Crafty, Fritz, Hiarcs have no problem with this position; so why CT ? hashtable
>>weakness, pruning weakness or somehting else ? Christophe, an idea ?
>>
>>>>
>>I will publish the result for all positions later Celeron@875, 96 MB hash, 15
>>min/pos
>
>
>DeepSjeng has also Problems. At least in beta stage when I tested the program.
>Gian-Carlo replied to my message with the argument, that tuning an engine for
>this position makes it weaker in general pawn endgames. I'm sure the views
>differ on that position but maybe Theron agrees with Gian-Carlo that this
>specific position is an artificial one.
>
>regards Joachim

this position is a question of search not tuning...

New game
[d] 8/k7/3p4/p2P1p2/P2P1P2/8/8/K7 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Crafty 19.03 Lasker:

1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Ke7 8.Kd3 Kf6
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 16   00:00:01  13kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Ke7 8.Kd3 Kf6
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 16   00:00:01  13kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Kc8 8.Kc4 Kd7
9.Kd3
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 17   00:00:01  16kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Kc8 8.Kc4 Kd7
9.Kd3
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 17   00:00:01  16kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Kc7 8.Kd3 Kb7
9.Ke2 Kc7
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 18   00:00:01  26kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Kc7 8.Kd3 Kb7
9.Ke2 Kc7
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 18   00:00:01  26kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kd2 Kc8 7.Ke2 Kd7 8.Ke3 Kd8
9.Kf3 Ke7 10.Ke3
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 19   00:00:01  31kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kd2 Kc8 7.Ke2 Kd7 8.Ke3 Kd8
9.Kf3 Ke7 10.Ke3
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 19   00:00:01  36kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kb2 Kc8 7.Kc1 Kc7 8.Kd2 Kd7
9.Kc3 Kc7 10.Kd3 Kd7
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 20   00:00:01  36kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kb2 Kc8 7.Kc1 Kc7 8.Kd2 Kd7
9.Kc3 Kc7 10.Kd3 Kd7
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 20   00:00:01  37kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kb2 Kc8 7.Kc1 Kc7 8.Kd2 Kd7
9.Kc3 Kc8 10.Kc4 Kd7 11.Kd3
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 21   00:00:01  48kN
1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kb2 Kc8 7.Kc1 Kc7 8.Kd2 Kd7
9.Kc3 Kc8 10.Kc4 Kd7 11.Kd3
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 21   00:00:01  48kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kc8
9.Kg5 Kc7 10.Kxf5 Kd7 11.Ke4 Kc8 12.f5 Kd7
  +-  (3.75)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  121kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kc8
9.Kg5 Kc7 10.Kxf5 Kd7 11.Ke4 Kc8 12.f5 Kd7
  +-  (3.75)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  121kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf7 13.Kf4
  +-  (3.75)   Depth: 25   00:00:01  136kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf7 13.Kf4
  +-  (3.75)   Depth: 25   00:00:01  137kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf8 13.f6 Kf7
  +-  (3.73)   Depth: 26   00:00:01  160kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf8 13.f6 Kf7
  +-  (3.73)   Depth: 26   00:00:01  160kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (4.13)   Depth: 27   00:00:02  193kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf8 13.Kg6 Ke7 14.f6+ Kd7
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 27   00:00:02  234kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf8 13.Kg6 Ke7 14.f6+ Kd7
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 27   00:00:02  234kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf7 13.f6 Ke8 14.Kg6
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 28   00:00:02  265kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf7 13.f6 Ke8 14.Kg6
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 28   00:00:02  265kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kg6 Kd7 11.Kxf5 Ke7 12.Kg5 Kd7 13.Kg6 Ke7 14.f5 Kd7 15.f6
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 29   00:00:02  305kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kg6 Kd7 11.Kxf5 Ke7 12.Kg5 Kd7 13.Kg6 Ke7 14.f5 Kd7 15.f6
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 29   00:00:02  305kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kg6 Ke8 11.Kxf5 Ke7 12.Kg5
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 30   00:00:03  356kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kg6 Ke8 11.Kxf5 Ke7 12.Kg5
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 30   00:00:03  356kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
16.Kf5
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 31   00:00:03  429kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
16.Kf5
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 31   00:00:03  429kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg6 Kg8
16.f7+ Kf8
  +-  (4.61)   Depth: 32   00:00:03  537kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg6 Kg8
16.f7+ Kf8
  +-  (4.61)   Depth: 32   00:00:03  537kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
16.Kf4 Kf8
  +-  (4.78)   Depth: 33   00:00:05  756kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
16.Kf4 Kf8
  +-  (4.78)   Depth: 33   00:00:05  762kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg6 13.Kd3 Kh6 14.Kc4 Kg6 15.Kb5 Kf5
16.Kc6 Kxf4
  +-  (5.17)   Depth: 34   00:00:06  1033kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg6 13.Kd3 Kh6 14.Kc4 Kg6 15.Kb5 Kf5
16.Kc6 Kxf4
  +-  (5.17)   Depth: 34   00:00:06  1044kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
16.Kf4 Kf8
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 35   00:00:10  1483kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
16.Kf4 Kf8
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 35   00:00:10  1497kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (5.08)   Depth: 36   00:00:11  1705kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg6 13.Kd3 Kf5 14.Kc4 Kxf4 15.Kb5 Kg5
16.Kc6 Kf5
  +-  (5.59)   Depth: 36   00:00:13  2286kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg6 13.Kd3 Kf5 14.Kc4 Kxf4 15.Kb5 Kg5
16.Kc6 Kf5
  +-  (5.59)   Depth: 36   00:00:13  2299kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (5.99)   Depth: 37   00:00:18  2865kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4
  +-  (9.39)   Depth: 37   00:00:38  4209kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4
  +-  (9.39)   Depth: 37   00:00:43  5064kN
1.Kb1
  +-  (9.79)   Depth: 38   00:01:03  6547kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb7 3.Kc3 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg7 13.Kd3 Kf6 14.Kc4 Kg6 15.Kb5 Kf5
16.Kxa5 Ke4
  +-  (9.98)   Depth: 38   00:01:14  8585kN
1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb7 3.Kc3 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg7 13.Kd3 Kf6 14.Kc4 Kg6 15.Kb5 Kf5
16.Kxa5 Ke4
  +-  (9.98)   Depth: 38   00:01:15  8808kN

(Byrne, Secane, PA USA 20.06.2003)

Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !? Uri Blass 04:34:03 06/20/03
- Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !? Ulrich Tuerke 06:12:57 06/20/03
  - Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !? Dieter Buerssner 11:59:06 06/20/03
  - Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !? Uri Blass 06:37:14 06/20/03
    - Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !? Ulrich Tuerke 07:17:10 06/20/03
      - Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !? Dave Gomboc 05:04:17 06/21/03
        
        Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !? Ulrich Tuerke 09:48:01 06/21/03
      - Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !? Uri Blass 08:03:13 06/20/03
Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !? Mike Byrne 04:33:25 06/20/03

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