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Subject: Re: Chesstiger have a problem with FINE 70 position !?

Author: Mike Byrne

Date: 04:33:25 06/20/03

Go up one level in this thread


On June 20, 2003 at 07:29:35, Mike Byrne wrote:

>On June 20, 2003 at 06:15:09, Joachim Rang wrote:
>
>>On June 20, 2003 at 05:05:24, Vincent Lejeune wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I'm running a test with Chesstiger 15 and the Valentin Albillo test set (see
>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?301806) and what a surprise
>>>Chesstiger have a problem with the first position the well known FINE 70 (Kb1!);
>>>Crafty, Fritz, Hiarcs have no problem with this position; so why CT ? hashtable
>>>weakness, pruning weakness or somehting else ? Christophe, an idea ?
>>>
>>>>>
>>>I will publish the result for all positions later Celeron@875, 96 MB hash, 15
>>>min/pos
>>
>>
>>DeepSjeng has also Problems. At least in beta stage when I tested the program.
>>Gian-Carlo replied to my message with the argument, that tuning an engine for
>>this position makes it weaker in general pawn endgames. I'm sure the views
>>differ on that position but maybe Theron agrees with Gian-Carlo that this
>>specific position is an artificial one.
>>
>>regards Joachim
>
>this position is a question of search not tuning...

that is, this position is a question of search not positional tuning...it could
be a question search tuning ..


>
>New game
>[d] 8/k7/3p4/p2P1p2/P2P1P2/8/8/K7 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Crafty 19.03 Lasker:
>
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Ke7 8.Kd3 Kf6
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 16   00:00:01  13kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Ke7 8.Kd3 Kf6
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 16   00:00:01  13kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Kc8 8.Kc4 Kd7
>9.Kd3
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 17   00:00:01  16kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Kc8 8.Kc4 Kd7
>9.Kd3
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 17   00:00:01  16kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Kc7 8.Kd3 Kb7
>9.Ke2 Kc7
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 18   00:00:01  26kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kc8 6.Kd2 Kd7 7.Kc3 Kc7 8.Kd3 Kb7
>9.Ke2 Kc7
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 18   00:00:01  26kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kd2 Kc8 7.Ke2 Kd7 8.Ke3 Kd8
>9.Kf3 Ke7 10.Ke3
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 19   00:00:01  31kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kd2 Kc8 7.Ke2 Kd7 8.Ke3 Kd8
>9.Kf3 Ke7 10.Ke3
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 19   00:00:01  36kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kb2 Kc8 7.Kc1 Kc7 8.Kd2 Kd7
>9.Kc3 Kc7 10.Kd3 Kd7
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 20   00:00:01  36kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kb2 Kc8 7.Kc1 Kc7 8.Kd2 Kd7
>9.Kc3 Kc7 10.Kd3 Kd7
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 20   00:00:01  37kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kb2 Kc8 7.Kc1 Kc7 8.Kd2 Kd7
>9.Kc3 Kc8 10.Kc4 Kd7 11.Kd3
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 21   00:00:01  48kN
>1.Kb2 Kb8 2.Kc3 Kb7 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Kd3 Kc7 5.Kc2 Kb8 6.Kb2 Kc8 7.Kc1 Kc7 8.Kd2 Kd7
>9.Kc3 Kc8 10.Kc4 Kd7 11.Kd3
>  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 21   00:00:01  48kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (1.61)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  94kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kc8
>9.Kg5 Kc7 10.Kxf5 Kd7 11.Ke4 Kc8 12.f5 Kd7
>  +-  (3.75)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  121kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kc8
>9.Kg5 Kc7 10.Kxf5 Kd7 11.Ke4 Kc8 12.f5 Kd7
>  +-  (3.75)   Depth: 24   00:00:01  121kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf7 13.Kf4
>  +-  (3.75)   Depth: 25   00:00:01  136kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf7 13.Kf4
>  +-  (3.75)   Depth: 25   00:00:01  137kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf8 13.f6 Kf7
>  +-  (3.73)   Depth: 26   00:00:01  160kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf8 13.f6 Kf7
>  +-  (3.73)   Depth: 26   00:00:01  160kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (4.13)   Depth: 27   00:00:02  193kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf8 13.Kg6 Ke7 14.f6+ Kd7
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 27   00:00:02  234kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf8 13.Kg6 Ke7 14.f6+ Kd7
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 27   00:00:02  234kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf7 13.f6 Ke8 14.Kg6
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 28   00:00:02  265kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kxf5 Kf7 11.Kg5 Kg7 12.f5 Kf7 13.f6 Ke8 14.Kg6
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 28   00:00:02  265kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kg6 Kd7 11.Kxf5 Ke7 12.Kg5 Kd7 13.Kg6 Ke7 14.f5 Kd7 15.f6
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 29   00:00:02  305kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kg6 Kd7 11.Kxf5 Ke7 12.Kg5 Kd7 13.Kg6 Ke7 14.f5 Kd7 15.f6
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 29   00:00:02  305kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kg6 Ke8 11.Kxf5 Ke7 12.Kg5
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 30   00:00:03  356kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kb7 7.Kg3 Kc7 8.Kh4 Kd7
>9.Kg5 Ke7 10.Kg6 Ke8 11.Kxf5 Ke7 12.Kg5
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 30   00:00:03  356kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
>16.Kf5
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 31   00:00:03  429kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
>16.Kf5
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 31   00:00:03  429kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg6 Kg8
>16.f7+ Kf8
>  +-  (4.61)   Depth: 32   00:00:03  537kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg6 Kg8
>16.f7+ Kf8
>  +-  (4.61)   Depth: 32   00:00:03  537kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
>16.Kf4 Kf8
>  +-  (4.78)   Depth: 33   00:00:05  756kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
>16.Kf4 Kf8
>  +-  (4.78)   Depth: 33   00:00:05  762kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg6 13.Kd3 Kh6 14.Kc4 Kg6 15.Kb5 Kf5
>16.Kc6 Kxf4
>  +-  (5.17)   Depth: 34   00:00:06  1033kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg6 13.Kd3 Kh6 14.Kc4 Kg6 15.Kb5 Kf5
>16.Kc6 Kxf4
>  +-  (5.17)   Depth: 34   00:00:06  1044kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
>16.Kf4 Kf8
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 35   00:00:10  1483kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Kg5 Kg7 13.f5 Kf7 14.f6 Kf8 15.Kg4 Ke8
>16.Kf4 Kf8
>  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 35   00:00:10  1497kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (5.08)   Depth: 36   00:00:11  1705kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg6 13.Kd3 Kf5 14.Kc4 Kxf4 15.Kb5 Kg5
>16.Kc6 Kf5
>  +-  (5.59)   Depth: 36   00:00:13  2286kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg6 13.Kd3 Kf5 14.Kc4 Kxf4 15.Kb5 Kg5
>16.Kc6 Kf5
>  +-  (5.59)   Depth: 36   00:00:13  2299kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (5.99)   Depth: 37   00:00:18  2865kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4
>  +-  (9.39)   Depth: 37   00:00:38  4209kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb8 3.Kc2 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4
>  +-  (9.39)   Depth: 37   00:00:43  5064kN
>1.Kb1
>  +-  (9.79)   Depth: 38   00:01:03  6547kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb7 3.Kc3 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg7 13.Kd3 Kf6 14.Kc4 Kg6 15.Kb5 Kf5
>16.Kxa5 Ke4
>  +-  (9.98)   Depth: 38   00:01:14  8585kN
>1.Kb1 Ka8 2.Kb2 Kb7 3.Kc3 Kc7 4.Kd3 Kb7 5.Ke2 Kc7 6.Kf3 Kd7 7.Kg3 Ke7 8.Kh4 Kf6
>9.Kh5 Kf7 10.Kg5 Kg7 11.Kxf5 Kf7 12.Ke4 Kg7 13.Kd3 Kf6 14.Kc4 Kg6 15.Kb5 Kf5
>16.Kxa5 Ke4
>  +-  (9.98)   Depth: 38   00:01:15  8808kN
>
>(Byrne, Secane, PA USA 20.06.2003)



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