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Subject: Re: Science, Truth & Computer Chess [And ChessBase]

Author: Marc van Hal

Date: 05:28:27 06/20/03

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On June 20, 2003 at 05:20:47, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>Computer Chess came out of the science "computer sciences". Later scientists and
>becoming scientists came together and made a little tournament with their
>machines. They found rules that were enough for them - because they were
>basically scientists, so never they would have cheated each other. They had a so
>called gentleman's agreement about possible cheats.
>
>Now let's stop the historical summary for a moment of thought.
>
>As I wrote computer chess has no inborn rules against cheating. More, it is
>technically impossible to prevent cheatings. As long as scientists are
>participating that is no big problem, but what happens if people participate who
>simply have no idea what science is? We get a real problem. All kind of private
>routines are presented with their private results although that can't be
>accepted as scientific procedures. The answer is, privately we can do what we
>want, science is for labs. This is a gross misunderstanding. Simply because back
>through the bathroom window these same people claim that their results have
>validity. But that exactly implies science because without certain exact
>procedures you can't get validity of your data. So that is leading you into a
>deadly circle.
>
>Scientists get their income from scientific institutions. Look at Bob who gives
>his Crafty for free but who gets enough money as Professor. Now we have certain
>people without such an income who therefore use business technology. Now where
>is the scientific control here? As you know software in general is a fine
>medium. Errors are called bugs and sold as if - they had no bugs, but if they
>have, the users give precious feedback for the business companies. In short
>there is no scientific control whatsoever. Brilliant for the business companies.
>They are mainly amateurs (and Christians in the majority) who do a charity job
>for the million users. The products (programs) are tested by - again - amateur
>testers. So all without validity. All without a way to complain if something
>goes wrong.
>
>Can you follow me what I mean if I say that non-scientists, amateurs and charity
>people sell something that we should NEVER expect scientific reliability? Not to
>speak of validity. Excuse the many scientific terms.
>
>Can you also follow me that if such amateurs want to make money, NB that
>Kasparov or Amir Ban got thousands of dollars for their show event meant as PR
>action for the ChessBase program Junior, that then they must create a bit of hot
>air, they must "make a little cheat" about the content of the box they are
>selling? Of course they must say that Junior is GM!! Since Kasparov said it. Of
>course they must shout, that the original engine that played KASPAROV IS IN THE
>BOX!! If they didn't they were bad amateurs or - -  well, just scientists. But
>since they aren't all is kosher.
>
>Look, when I bought Fritz 8 I suffered of the same mental attack all the Junior
>8 customers suffered from, I believed that I could finally use the new feature
>with the 3D pieces. I did NEVER think about my old PC who simply had not the
>modern graphics which were necessary to be able to profit from the new features!
>The same with Junior 8. Against Kasparov the prog ran on extremely expensive
>hardware. Obviously nobody around has such a machine. So by force nobody can use
>the exact program that played Kasparov. But that was exactly what the PR of
>ChessBase told us. But for real computer freaks - is that a surprise?? Is that a
>cheat?? Of course NOT. Since we are totally out of science.
>
>Look if I sold you a rocket to the moon and you bought it for your dreams about
>farming on the moon and you run short of gasoline, don't call me if you are
>frustrated. Without fuel no rocket did ever fly to the moon. Know what I mean?
>
>With the "GM Junior 8" we touch the sphere of day dreaming! Know what I mean?
>there is no room for scientific reflections. It is all a question of "as if".
>
>Cheating is NOT cheating in the dream world of computer chess.
>
>So, we shoulkd let ChessBase off the hook. They are only "human" (Stefan
>Giering).
>
>
>;)
>
>
>Rolf Tueschen
>
>P.S.
>
>Please all kind of popular software to my email address
>
>at rolftueschen@aol.com
>
>Thank you!
>
>zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt - I dream on ---

You indeed used the word sience way to much especialy because computerchess is
not sience yet.
(And maybe never will)
But a work in progress.

Because sience is something wich can be proofed by facts

By the way you did get these nice Luft balon with Junior 8
Lass man einmal so ein fliegen.
(Sory for my bad german)
Or was the not the end of 99 Luft balon?
Not to talk about hot air balons .

Maybe a fact that the mistake was made on purpose.

he he
Marc



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