Author: Slater Wold
Date: 06:38:16 06/27/03
Go up one level in this thread
On June 27, 2003 at 01:56:32, John Merlino wrote: >On June 27, 2003 at 00:48:25, Slater Wold wrote: > >>On June 26, 2003 at 17:54:35, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >> >>>[D]3rr3/6k1/2p3P1/1p2nP1p/pP2p1P1/P1B1Nb1B/2P2K2/5R2 b >>>In the above diagram Deeper Blue made a huge mistake by playing 39...Kh6 and >>>lost.Commercial programs do not play this move but choose 39...h4 which draws. >>>Amazingly no annotation to this game mentions this as the loosing mistake ;but >>>they concentrate on moves like 34...Qxf1+ as mistakes.I Let Chessmaster 9000 >>>at 1.8 GHZ play both sides at 999 seconds per move for both sides after 39...h4 >>>and the result is a draw.Amazingly 39....h4! is played by the programs at very >>>low depths also.Deeper Blue must be inferior to current Commercials for turning >>>a Draw into a loss by playing 39....Kh6? 200 million positions per second and >>>still it does not see 39...h4.I think Deeper Blue was at least 200 Elo points >>>weaker than the current Commercials.HERE IS CHESSMASTER 9000 autoplay at 999sec >>>per move at 1.8 GHZ after 39.....h4! >>>CHESSMASTER 9000:39...h4 40.Ng2 Kf8 41.Nxh4 Bd1 42.f6 Bxc2 43.g7+ Kf7 44.Nf5 >>>Kxf6 45.g5+ Kxg5 46.Bxe5 Rxe5 47.Rg1+ Kf6 48.g8=Q Rxg8 49.Rxg8 Rxf5+ 50.Bxf5 >>>Kxf5 AND in this Drawn position the Computer(CM 9000) moves pieces back and >>>forth for another 30 moves which I do not list without any advantage for any >>>side.SO I THINK AFTER 39.....h4! IT IS A DRAW. >> >> >>This is the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever read on CCC. >> >>DBII had h4, and and shook it in 29s to pick Kh6. Why? Because h4 is the worst >>move possible. It loses *VERY* quickly. >> >>After h4, 40.Ng2 is a _HORRIBLE_ move. g5 is winning, and winning big. F6 >>chooses it in seconds with a modest score. After 40...Kg8 41. Bg2 white is up >>over +1.50. After 41...Kf8 42. Bxf3 the score is +2.00. >> >>And guess what?! DBII saw ALL of this, while your CM @ 999 seconds did not. >> >> >>In the position of 39... in this game, black is lost. Period. DBII played the >>*best* move, Kh6 with a losing score. In this position, h4 is losing. And >>losing faster than Kh6. > >Agreed. It takes a little while on my (moderately busy) P4-2.4, but CM9000 >(SS=12) does spot 40.g5 as the best response to 39...h4. It takes just over >seven minutes.... > >Time Depth Score Positions Moves >0:00 1/3 -0.35 3555 1...h4 2.Rg1 Re7 3.g5 >0:00 1/4 -0.35 5176 1...h4 2.Rg1 Re7 3.g5 >0:00 1/5 -0.15 12203 1...h4 2.Rg1 Re7 3.g5 Ree8 >0:00 1/6 -0.10 40295 1...h4 2.Re1 Re7 3.Kg1 Rh8 4.Kh2 >0:00 1/7 -0.05 90995 1...h4 2.Re1 Kg8 3.Kg1 Rd6 4.g5 > Rdd8 >0:01 1/8 -0.07 149730 1...h4 2.Re1 Kg8 3.Kg1 Kf8 4.Kh2 > Kg7 5.g5 >0:02 1/9 0.00 392941 1...h4 2.Re1 Kg8 3.Kg1 Kf8 4.Kh2 > Kg7 5.g5 Kg8 >0:08 1/10 0.04 1554257 1...h4 2.Bg2 Kf8 3.Rh1 Nxg4+ 4.Nxg4 > Bxg4 5.Rxh4 Bxf5 6.Bf6 Bxg6 7.Bxd8 > Rxd8 8.Bxe4 Bxe4 9.Rxe4 >0:22 1/11 0.12 4249370 1...h4 2.Ng2 Kf8 3.Nxh4 Bd1 4.f6 > e3+ 5.Kg3 e2 6.Rf5 Nd3 7.g7+ Kf7 > 8.cxd3 Rxd3+ 9.Nf3 Rxc3 >0:54 1/12 0.35 10491191 1...h4 2.Ng2 Kf8 3.g5 Bh5 4.Nf4 > e3+ 5.Kg2 e2 6.Re1 Nf3 7.Rxe2 Rxe2+ > 8.Nxe2 Nxg5 9.Nf4 Bf3+ 10.Kh2 Nxh3 > 11.Kxh3 >2:28 2/13 0.38 29059430 1...h4 2.Ng2 Bd1 3.Nf4 Kg8 4.Ne6 > Rxe6 5.fxe6 Nxg6 6.Bf6 Rd6 7.Ke1 > Bxc2 8.e7 Rd1+ 9.Ke2 >7:12 3/14 0.74 86134041 1...h4 2.g5 Kf8 3.Bg2 Bxg2 4.Kxg2 > c5 5.bxc5 Rd7 6.Bxe5 Rxe5 7.Kh3 > Rxc5 8.Kxh4 Rc3 > >jm Both CM & Movie like g5 Kf8 Bg2 Bxg2; DBII did not. I bet if you looked real deep, 3...Bxg2 would fail low, and the score would triple, or more. I *think*. Bxg2 is an easy move, for any engine. And DBII passed it up.
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