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Subject: Re: MTD(f)

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 17:42:15 07/04/03

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On July 04, 2003 at 19:08:50, Uri Blass wrote:

>On July 04, 2003 at 18:42:59, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On July 04, 2003 at 16:33:50, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On July 04, 2003 at 15:44:53, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 04, 2003 at 11:38:09, Andrew Williams wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 04, 2003 at 11:18:58, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 03, 2003 at 13:57:02, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On July 03, 2003 at 12:28:05, Ralph Stoesser wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Dear chess programmers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What are your personal experiences with the MTD(f) search introduced by Aske
>>>>>>>>Plaat some years ago?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It does not work for me as well as it does for some others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think success will depend very much on your particular engine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Andrew Williams has a successful implementation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Claims to have a successful implementation is more near the truth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I am a bit surprised to read this. I sincerely hope you're not claiming that I'm
>>>>>lying about my implementation?
>>>>
>>>>No i just said that you *claim* to have a successful implementation.
>>>>
>>>>I didn't say a word more or less than that. I would be the last in the world to
>>>>suggest you are a liar as everyone knows you are honest.
>>>>
>>>>I did imply however that i doubt that your implementation of MTD will use less
>>>>nodes on average when all the participants of the world champs 2003 would get
>>>>rid of the PVS that they use and use MTD instead.
>>>
>>>1)I do not think that the question if you have succesful implementation is
>>>dependent on what other do.
>>>Succesful implementation is something that is better than what you did
>>>before doing it.
>>>
>>>2)You cannot know what other are going to do.
>>>You even cannot know the list of the participants because some participants may
>>>decide only later if to participate so
>>>"all the participants of the world champs 2003 would get rid of the PVS... " has
>>>no basis.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>We can get lengthy discussions, but did you read what i wrote about Aske Plaat?
>>
>>He could *never* have concluded that at a 512 processor origin MTD worked for
>>him.
>>
>>It is impossible that it *ever* works there for sure.
>>
>>Even those who have implemented MTD agree.
>>
>>Now second thing is. Some programs MTD won't work for sure because they use Pawn
>>=1000. Ok end of story for those programs. They are forced to use PVS.
>>
>>then we keep left with a big group of programs pawn=100. carefully skipping
>>fritz of course which is doing some sort of combination PVS with sometimes
>>skipping plies using a single bound. Though that isn't exactly MTD, it sure
>>isn't using enough to call it MTD.
>>
>>Now we know from all the commercial guys that they have extensively experimented
>>with all search algorithms.
>
>How do you know?
>I do not know.
>personally I do not plan even to try mtd.

You do not plan to show up at any world champs you said and you for sure aren't
a commercial engine and no one i know at least has any intention to take your
grande offer to cooperate with you in order to use your creative ideas like
playing for the book 1.h3 as a matter of a test.

So why the hell would i mean you?

On the other hands what the others tell is very clear.

>
>It does not mean that I do not plan to try better search algorithm but mtd is
>not one of them.

>I only said that it is possible that mtd can be an improvement for some people.
>It does not mean that it can be an improvement for the commercial programs.
>
>Uri



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