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Subject: Re: Average Engine but a fascinating game !

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 07:50:39 07/08/03

Go up one level in this thread


On July 08, 2003 at 10:40:28, Uri Blass wrote:

>On July 08, 2003 at 10:28:55, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>
>>On July 07, 2003 at 16:47:09, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On July 07, 2003 at 16:44:28, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>>>
>>>>Here's the clip from the newest Ruffian engine:
>>>>
>>>>New game
>>>>4rqn1/p3brk1/R5p1/6Bp/1p5Q/1B1R4/PPP2PPP/6K1 w - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>Analysis by Ruffian 2003-06-23:
>>>>
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 1/7   00:00:00
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 1/7   00:00:00
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 3/10   00:00:00
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 4/10   00:00:00
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 5/11   00:00:00
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 6/13   00:00:00  16kN
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  86kN
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 8/20   00:00:00  202kN
>>>>1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
>>>>  +-  (7.53)   Depth: 9/20   00:00:00  448kN
>>>
>>>I suspect that it learned from previous analysis.
>>>The line and the score was not changed from depth 1.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>Which previous analysis?  I just copied the fen into Ruffian and let him
>>analyse. No previous analysis. Wrong suspicion :)  Ruffian is a very smart
>>program...
>>
>>Djordje
>
>It does not make sense that a program has a pv of 13 plies at depth 1 when the
>pv and the score are unchanged until depth 9 except number of nodes.
>
>Maybe Ruffian analyzed the position without telling you about it after you
>copied the FEN and before you started the analysis.
>
>Uri

Or Maybe Ruffian already analyzed the position in the past and when you copied
the FEN it is not the first time that it saw it.

Ruffian is a good program but I do not believe that it can see at depth 1
something that top program including ruffian1.0.1 needs depth 8

You should know when a result does not make sense

Here is analysis of Ruffian1.0.1 that needs depth 8 to converge to Rxh6+
New ruffian may be better than Ruffian1.0.1 but not 7 plies better.


New game
4rqn1/p3brk1/R5p1/6Bp/1p5Q/1B1R4/PPP2PPP/6K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Ruffian 1.0.1:

1.Bxf7 Qxf7 2.Rxa7 Bxg5 3.Rxf7+ Kxf7
  +-  (5.88)   Depth: 1/7   00:00:00
1.Bxf7 Qxf7 2.Rxa7 Bxg5 3.Rxf7+ Kxf7
  +-  (6.62)   Depth: 2/8   00:00:00
1.Bxf7 Qxf7 2.Rxa7 Kh8
  +-  (6.15)   Depth: 3/10   00:00:00
1.Bxf7 Qxf7 2.Rxa7 Nf6 3.Bxf6+ Qxf6 4.Qxb4
  +-  (6.90)   Depth: 4/12   00:00:00
1.Bxf7 Bxg5 2.Rxg6+ Kxf7 3.Rf3+ Kxg6 4.Rxf8 Bxh4 5.Rxe8
  ±  (1.04)   Depth: 5/14   00:00:00
1.Qd4+ Bf6 2.Bxf6+ Nxf6 3.f3 Re1+ 4.Kf2 Rfe7 5.Rxa7 R1e2+ 6.Kf1
  +-  (3.13)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00
1.f3 Bc5+ 2.Kf1 Rb7 3.Bd5 Rd7
  +-  (3.98)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00
1.f3 Bxg5 2.Qxg5 Rf6 3.Rxa7+ Kh8 4.Bxg8 Kxg8 5.Rdd7
  +-  (4.17)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  293kN
1.Re3 Rd8 2.Re1 Bxg5 3.Qxg5 Rf6 4.Rxa7+ Kh8
  +-  (4.20)   Depth: 6/19   00:00:01  480kN
1.Rxg6+
  +-  (4.33)   Depth: 6/19   00:00:01  623kN
1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rg3 Bxg5 3.Rxg5+ Kh7 4.Rxh5+ Nh6 5.Bxf7 Qxf7 6.Rxh6+
  +-  (5.94)   Depth: 6/19   00:00:01  657kN
1.Rxg6+
  +-  (5.59)   Depth: 7/21   00:00:01  827kN
1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rg3 Bxg5 3.Rxg5+ Kh7 4.Rxh5+ Nh6 5.Rxh6+ Qxh6 6.Qxh6+ Kxh6 7.Bxf7
  +-  (2.21)   Depth: 7/21   00:00:02  1026kN
1.f3 Rf5 2.Rxa7 Kh8 3.Bxe7 Rxe7 4.Qd4+ Kh7 5.Rxe7+ Qxe7 6.Bd5
  +-  (4.01)   Depth: 7/21   00:00:02  1237kN
1.Re3 Rd8 2.Re1 Bxg5 3.Qxg5 Rf6 4.Rxa7+ Kh8 5.Qe5
  +-  (4.21)   Depth: 7/21   00:00:04  1829kN
1.Re3 Bxg5 2.Qxg5 Rf6 3.Rxa7+ Kh8 4.Rxe8 Qxe8 5.Kf1 Rd6
  +-  (4.00)   Depth: 8/21   00:00:05  2769kN
1.Rxg6+
  +-  (4.56)   Depth: 8/23   00:00:06  3339kN
1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Bxf7 Qh6 6.Re3+ Kd4 7.Rxe8 Qxh5
8.Bxh5
  +-  (6.33)   Depth: 8/23   00:00:07  3609kN
1.Rxg6+
  +-  (6.68)   Depth: 9/24   00:00:09  4747kN
1.Rxg6+ Kxg6 2.Rh3 Bxg5 3.Qxh5+ Kf5 4.Rf3+ Ke5 5.Rxf7 Qh6 6.Qe2+ Be3 7.fxe3
  +-  (7.19)   Depth: 9/24   00:00:10  5544kN

(, eim 08.07.2003)

Uri



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