Author: Keith Ian Price
Date: 00:11:13 07/09/03
Go up one level in this thread
On July 08, 2003 at 07:38:16, emerson tan wrote: >Nikolic - Fischer, Vinkovci, 1968 >[D] r3r1k1/pp1q1p2/2p2npb/PPPp1bnp/3PpN2/2N1P1PP/1R1B1PBK/3Q1R2 b - - 0 1 > >19 - Bg4!! > > >Is there a program out there that can find Fischer's 19 - Bg4!!? The move seems >correct because I autoplayed from that position using tournament time control on >my athlon 1.3 Ghz and Black scores 22 out of 24 using Deep Fritz 7 and Shredder >6.02 alternating in colors. Shredder 7.0 seems normal in its initial analysis. It wants to move its rook on the A-file to some other file: Analysis by Shredder 7: 1...Bxh3 2.Bxh3 Nxh3 3.Nxh3 cxb5 = (-0.19) Depth: 1/4 00:00:00 1...Bxh3 2.Bxh3 Nxh3 3.Nxh3 cxb5 4.Nxb5 ² (0.63) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 1...Bxh3 2.Nxh3 ± (0.90) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 1...cxb5 2.Rxb5 ² (0.62) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 1...cxb5 2.Ncxd5 = (0.11) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 1...cxb5 2.Rxb5 ³ (-0.43) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 1...Bg7 2.bxc6 bxc6 ³ (-0.50) Depth: 1/16 00:00:00 1...Bg7 2.bxc6 bxc6 ³ (-0.50) Depth: 1/16 00:00:00 1...Qc7 ³ (-0.53) Depth: 1/16 00:00:00 1...Qc7 ³ (-0.53) Depth: 1/16 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.a6 ³ (-0.54) Depth: 2/10 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.a6 Qb6 ³ (-0.29) Depth: 3/10 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Rb8 ³ (-0.33) Depth: 3/12 00:00:00 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 Bg7 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 3/17 00:00:00 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 Bg7 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 3/17 00:00:00 1...Ne6 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Na2 Bxf4 4.gxf4 ³ (-0.35) Depth: 3/20 00:00:00 1...Ne6 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Nxe6 Qxe6 ³ (-0.41) Depth: 3/20 00:00:00 1...Ne6 2.Nxe6 Qxe6 3.a6 cxb5 4.axb7 Bxh3 5.bxa8Q = (-0.16) Depth: 4/11 00:00:00 1...Ne6 2.Nxe6 Qxe6 3.a6 bxa6 = (-0.07) Depth: 4/11 00:00:00 1...cxb5 2.Kg1 = (-0.08) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 1...cxb5 2.Rxb5 Ne6 3.Nxe6 Rxe6 4.Qb3 = (-0.21) Depth: 4/19 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.a6 bxa6 3.Qg4 hxg4 = (-0.22) Depth: 4/19 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.a6 bxa6 3.Qa1 cxb5 4.Ncxd5 ³ (-0.57) Depth: 4/19 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.a6 Qc8 3.bxc6 Bxh3 4.Ncxd5 Nxd5 5.Nxh3 Qxc6 6.axb7 Nxh3 7.bxa8Q ³ (-0.57) Depth: 4/19 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.a6 Qc8 3.bxc6 Bxh3 4.axb7 Bxg2 5.bxc8Q ³ (-0.32) Depth: 5/19 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 = (0.01) Depth: 5/19 00:00:00 1...cxb5 2.Nfxd5 Nxd5 3.Qxh5 gxh5 = (0.00) Depth: 5/19 00:00:00 1...cxb5 2.Nxb5 Nf3+ 3.Bxf3 exf3 4.Qe2 fxe2 5.Nxe2 ³ (-0.26) Depth: 5/22 00:00:00 1...Rab8 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.f3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 5/22 00:00:00 1...Rab8 2.a6 Nf3+ 3.Bxf3 Qe6 4.Nxe6 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 5/22 00:00:00 1...a6 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Qb3 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 exf3 5.Ne6 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 5/22 00:00:00 1...a6 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Rb6 Bg7 4.Qa4 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 5/22 00:00:00 1...a6 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Rb6 Ne6 4.Nxe6 Bxe6 5.Qa4 Qc7 = (-0.03) Depth: 6/20 00:00:00 1...a6 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Rb6 Ne6 4.Nxe6 Qxe6 5.Qe2 Qc8 = (0.05) Depth: 6/20 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.a6 bxa6 3.Qb3 axb5 = (0.04) Depth: 6/20 00:00:00 1...Qc7 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Qb3 = (-0.19) Depth: 6/21 00:00:00 1...Rab8 2.a6 bxa6 3.Kg1 = (-0.20) Depth: 6/24 00:00:00 1...Rab8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Rxb8 Rxb8 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 6/24 00:00:00 1...Rac8 2.a6 bxa6 3.Qb3 cxb5 4.Qxb5 axb5 ³ (-0.28) Depth: 6/28 00:00:01 1...Rac8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Qb3 ³ (-0.33) Depth: 6/28 00:00:01 1...Rad8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Qa4 Qxa4 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 6/28 00:00:01 1...Rad8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Qb3 ³ (-0.38) Depth: 6/28 00:00:01 1...Rad8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Rb4 Bg7 = (-0.16) Depth: 7/23 00:00:01 268kN 1...Rac8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Rb4 Bg7 = (-0.17) Depth: 7/24 00:00:01 347kN 1...Rac8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Rb4 Kf8 = (-0.20) Depth: 7/24 00:00:01 369kN 1...Rab8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Qb3 Rxb3 = (-0.21) Depth: 7/24 00:00:02 395kN 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 Bg7 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 7/24 00:00:02 418kN 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 Bg7 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 8/29 00:00:02 538kN 1...Rac8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Nxe4 Nfxe4 ³ (-0.35) Depth: 8/29 00:00:03 652kN 1...Rac8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Qb3 Nf3+ 5.Bxf3 Bxf4 ³ (-0.40) Depth: 8/29 00:00:03 700kN 1...Rad8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Rb4 Rb8 5.Qa4 ³ (-0.41) Depth: 8/29 00:00:03 826kN 1...Rad8 2.Rb4 Rb8 3.a6 cxb5 4.Rxb5 bxa6 5.Ra5 Ne6 6.Qb1 Rxb1 ³ (-0.41) Depth: 8/29 00:00:04 886kN 1...Rad8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Rb4 Rb8 5.Ra4 Kf8 = (-0.25) Depth: 9/27 00:00:05 1236kN 1...Rab8 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Rxb8 Rxb8 4.Bxe4 Ngxe4 5.Qxh5 gxh5 ³ (-0.26) Depth: 9/27 00:00:05 1321kN 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 Bg7 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 9/28 00:00:07 1687kN 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 Bg7 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 10/25 00:00:09 2338kN 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 Bg7 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 11/26 00:00:15 3768kN 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 Bg7 3.bxc6 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 12/28 00:00:26 6825kN 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 13/35 00:01:06 17159kN 1...Rab8 2.a6 bxa6 3.bxc6 Qxc6 4.Ra2 Bd7 5.Qe2 Bc8 6.Ncxd5 Nxd5 7.Nxd5 Qxd5 8.f4 Qxa2 ³ (-0.33) Depth: 14/37 00:02:39 41894kN 1...Rab8 2.Qe2 Qc7 3.Ra1 Qc8 4.a6 bxa6 5.b6 Nf3+ 6.Bxf3 exf3 7.Qxa6 Qxa6 8.Ncxd5 Qxa1 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 15/38 00:09:56 156026kN But then if I force the Bxg4 move, and it looks at how it's doing as White, it immediately thinks it is much worse off than it did analyzing from the Black perspective. Also, it shuns the move hxg4 immediately and never goes back: [D] r3r1k1/pp1q1p2/2p2npb/PPPp2np/3PpNb1/2N1P1PP/1R1B1PBK/3Q1R2 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Shredder 7: 2.hxg4 hxg4 3.a6 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.axb7 Ng4+ 6.Kg1 Qxb7 µ (-1.29) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00 2.hxg4 hxg4 3.a6 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.axb7 Ng4+ 6.Kg1 Qxb7 µ (-1.29) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Qb1 h4 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.hxg4 hxg3+ 6.fxg3 Qxg4 µ (-1.07) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 2.bxc6 bxc6 3.Qb1 h4 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.hxg4 hxg3+ 6.fxg3 Qxg4 µ (-1.07) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.a6 Rec8 6.Kg1 Bxg2 7.Kxg2 Nxh3 8.Nxh3 Qxf2+ 9.Rxf2 µ (-0.75) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.a6 Rec8 6.Kg1 Bxg2 7.Kxg2 Nxh3 8.Nxh3 Qxf2+ 9.Rxf2 µ (-0.75) Depth: 1/15 00:00:00 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.a6 Rec8 6.Kg1 Bxg2 7.Kxg2 Nxh3 8.Nxh3 Qxf2+ 9.Rxf2 µ (-0.71) Depth: 2/2 00:00:00 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.a6 Rec8 6.Kg1 Bxg2 7.Kxg2 Nxh3 8.Nxh3 Qxf2+ 9.Rxf2 µ (-0.71) Depth: 3/3 00:00:00 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.a6 Rec8 6.Kg1 Bxg2 7.Kxg2 Nxh3 8.Nxh3 Qxf2+ 9.Rxf2 µ (-0.71) Depth: 4/4 00:00:00 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.a6 Rec8 6.Kg1 Bxg2 7.Kxg2 Nxh3 8.Nxh3 Qxf2+ 9.Rxf2 µ (-0.71) Depth: 5/8 00:00:00 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.a6 Rec8 6.Kg1 Bxg2 7.Kxg2 Nxh3 8.Nxh3 Qxf2+ 9.Rxf2 µ (-0.71) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.a6 Rec8 6.Kg1 Bxg2 7.Kxg2 Nxh3 8.Nxh3 Qxf2+ 9.Rxf2 µ (-0.71) Depth: 7/19 00:00:00 15kN 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.a6 Bxg2 4.Kxg2 bxa6 5.bxc6 Qxc6 6.Rb7 µ (-0.83) Depth: 8/25 00:00:00 183kN 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.a6 Bxg2 4.Kxg2 Nf3 5.axb7 Qxb7 6.bxc6 Qxc6 7.Nb5 Bxf4 µ (-0.75) Depth: 9/24 00:00:02 506kN 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.a6 Bxg2 4.Kxg2 Nf3 5.axb7 Qxb7 6.bxc6 Qxc6 7.Nb5 Bxf4 8.exf4 a5 µ (-0.85) Depth: 10/27 00:00:04 1061kN 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.a6 Bxg2 4.Kxg2 Nf3 5.Nfe2 bxa6 6.bxc6 Qxc6 7.Qa2 Nxd2 8.Rxd2 µ (-0.84) Depth: 11/28 00:00:10 2572kN 2.Qb1 Bf3 3.a6 Bxg2 4.Kxg2 Nf3 5.axb7 Qxb7 6.bxc6 Qxc6 7.Qa2 Bxf4 8.gxf4 Kf8 9.Qa4 Qxa4 10.Nxa4 µ (-0.75) Depth: 12/30 00:00:23 5843kN 2.Qb1 h4 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rb7 Qf5 5.Nxe4 dxe4 6.gxh4 Nf3+ 7.Bxf3 exf3 8.Qd1 µ (-1.00) Depth: 13/35 00:01:01 15371kN 2.Qb1 h4 3.hxg4 hxg3+ 4.fxg3 Nf3+ 5.Bxf3 exf3 6.bxc6 bxc6 7.g5 Bxg5 µ (-1.08) Depth: 13/35 00:01:21 20785kN 2.Qb1 h4 3.a6 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 exf3 5.bxc6 bxc6 6.Rb7 Qf5 7.Qxf5 Bxf5 8.Rc7 Rec8 9.Re7 hxg3+ 10.fxg3 Re8 µ (-0.96) Depth: 14/38 00:04:05 62939kN 2.Qb1 h4 3.a6 hxg3+ 4.fxg3 Bf5 5.axb7 Qxb7 6.bxc6 Qxc6 7.Qa2 Nxh3 8.Bxh3 Bxh3 9.Kxh3 Bxf4 10.Rxf4 g5 µ (-0.87) Depth: 15/38 00:06:59 107583kN But if I force the hxg4 move, that all the other programs like for so long, even though it is a bad move in the long, long run, it analyzes itself down approx. 2 pawns and it doesn't get much better, even though as white, it saw it as at least a 3 pawn different score: [D] r3r1k1/pp1q1p2/2p2npb/PPPp2np/3PpNP1/2N1P1P1/1R1B1PBK/3Q1R2 b - - 0 1 Analysis by Shredder 7: 2...Qxg4 3.Qxg4 hxg4 +- (2.63) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 2...Qxg4 3.Qxg4 hxg4 +- (2.63) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 2...hxg4 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.a6 Nf3+ 5.Bxf3 gxf3 6.Ncxd5 cxd5 7.Rb7 Qf5 +- (2.31) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 2...hxg4 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.a6 Nf3+ 5.Bxf3 gxf3 6.Ncxd5 cxd5 7.Rb7 Qf5 +- (1.84) Depth: 1/11 00:00:00 2...hxg4 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.a6 Nf3+ 5.Bxf3 gxf3 6.Ncxd5 cxd5 7.Rb7 Qf5 +- (1.84) Depth: 1/11 00:00:00 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 Nh3+ 4.Nxh3 Re5 5.dxe5 +- (1.68) Depth: 1/11 00:00:00 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 Nh3+ 4.Nxh3 Re5 5.dxe5 +- (1.68) Depth: 1/11 00:00:00 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 Bg7 4.bxc6 bxc6 +- (1.87) Depth: 2/9 00:00:00 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 Bg7 4.bxc6 bxc6 +- (1.87) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 2...hxg4 3.Rb1 a6 4.Nxe4 dxe4 5.bxa6 Rxa6 6.d5 Nxd5 +- (1.86) Depth: 3/15 00:00:00 2...hxg4 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.a6 Nf3+ 5.Bxf3 gxf3 6.Ncxd5 cxd5 7.Rb7 Qf5 +- (1.84) Depth: 3/15 00:00:00 2...hxg4 3.bxc6 a6 4.cxd7 Nf3+ +- (2.09) Depth: 4/7 00:00:00 2...hxg4 3.bxc6 bxc6 4.Rh1 Nf3+ 5.Bxf3 gxf3 6.Qc2 +- (2.28) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 +- (2.10) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 a6 4.bxc6 bxc6 +- (1.93) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 a6 4.bxc6 bxc6 5.Qa4 +- (1.94) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 a6 4.bxc6 bxc6 5.Qe2 Bg7 +- (1.89) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 a6 4.bxc6 bxc6 5.Qe2 Bg7 6.Rfb1 +- (2.01) Depth: 7/22 00:00:00 59kN 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 a6 4.bxc6 bxc6 5.Qe2 Bg7 6.Rb6 Qc8 +- (2.21) Depth: 8/27 00:00:00 197kN 2...Nxg4+ 3.Kg1 a6 4.bxc6 bxc6 5.Qe2 Ne6 6.Nxe6 Qd8 7.Nxd8 +- (2.36) Depth: 9/26 00:00:02 628kN 2...hxg4 3.Qb3 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.Ncxd5 cxd5 6.Qxd5 +- (2.35) Depth: 9/26 00:00:02 676kN 2...hxg4 3.Qb3 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.bxc6 bxc6 6.Qb7 Bxf4 7.Qxd7 Bxg3+ 8.Kxg3 Nxd7 9.Rh1 +- (2.29) Depth: 9/26 00:00:02 729kN 2...hxg4 3.Qb3 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.bxc6 bxc6 6.Qb7 Bxf4 7.Qxd7 Bxg3+ 8.Kxg3 Nxd7 9.Rh1 +- (2.29) Depth: 10/25 00:00:04 1057kN 2...hxg4 3.Qb3 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.bxc6 bxc6 6.Qb7 Bxf4 7.Qxd7 Bxg3+ 8.Kxg3 Nxd7 9.Rh1 +- (2.29) Depth: 11/27 00:00:07 2174kN 2...hxg4 3.Qb3 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.bxc6 bxc6 6.Qb7 Reb8 7.Qxd7 Rb4 8.Rxb4 +- (2.28) Depth: 12/29 00:00:14 4216kN 2...hxg4 3.Qb3 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.bxc6 bxc6 6.Qb7 Qf5 7.Qxc6 Bxf4 8.Nxd5 Nxd5 9.Qxg6+ Qxg6 +- (2.03) Depth: 13/29 00:00:29 8610kN 2...hxg4 3.Qb3 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.bxc6 bxc6 6.Qb7 Qf5 7.Rh1 Bxf4 8.exf4 Rab8 9.Qxb8 Qh3+ 10.Kxh3 +- (2.03) Depth: 13/29 00:00:31 9073kN 2...hxg4 3.a6 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.axb7 Qxb7 6.Rh1 Ng4+ 7.Kg1 g5 8.Nh5 Bf8 9.Qb3 Rab8 10.Ra2 +- (2.11) Depth: 14/28 00:00:58 17020kN 2...hxg4 3.a6 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.axb7 Qxb7 6.Rh1 Bxf4 7.exf4 Kg7 8.Kg1 Rh8 9.Qb3 Rxh1+ 10.Kxh1 Rh8+ 11.Kg1 a5 12.bxc6 Qxc6 +- (2.11) Depth: 15/32 00:01:41 30217kN 2...hxg4 3.a6 Nf3+ 4.Bxf3 gxf3 5.axb7 Qxb7 6.Rh1 Kg7 7.Kg1 Rh8 8.Qb3 Rab8 9.Qa2 Ng4 10.Nfxd5 cxd5 11.Qxd5 Qxd5 +- (2.19) Depth: 16/34 00:03:29 62568kN Can anyone tell me the reason for this asymetric analysis? Fritz, Junior, Tiger, etc. do not do this. thanks, kp
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