Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 06:48:08 07/14/03
Go up one level in this thread
On July 14, 2003 at 06:31:11, K. Burcham wrote: > >someone here posted that their program says that 39...h4 is better than Deep >Blue move of 39...Kh6. We all know black is lost here, but if you let your >program think long enough and deep enough you might find that your program will >also play the Deep Blue move of 39...Kh6, Shredder 7 does but takes over 16 >days. Deep Blue was amazing. this is utter nonsense. Within a minute shredder7 already outsearches deep blue here. Shredders eval is way better than that of deep blue (it was about gnuchess level, which was a lot better than it used to be as it was a piece square table before according to Hyatt here). Saying that Deep Blue was amazing is complete crap. It sucked ass the thing. Just for something without nullmove it searched incredible deep namely 10-12 ply. Right here it searched not so deep. hash guess pg3g4,Guessing g4 8(4) #[h4](-30)[h4](-30) -30v T=3 Ph5h4 pg4g5 Kg7f8 bh3g2 Ne5g4 ne3g4N Bf3g4n kf2e3 Bg4f5p rf1f5B Kf8e7 bg2e4P 8(6) #[h4](-23)########################### -23 T=8 Ph5h4 pg4g5 Kg7g8 bh3g2 Kg8f8 bg2f3B Ne5f3b pg6g7 Kf8e7 bc3f6 Ke7d6 bf6d8R 9(6) #[h4](-53)[h4](-53) -53v T=13 Ph5h4 pg4g5 Kg7g8 bh3g2 Kg8f8 bg2f3B Ne5f3b pg6g7 Kf8e7 bc3f6 Ke7f7 ne3g4 9(6) #[h4](-53)########[Kh6](-39)################### -39 T=29 Kg7h6 pg4h5P Bf3h5p bc3e5N Re8e5b ne3c4 10(6) #[Kh6](-46)########################### -46 T=47 Kg7h6 pg4h5P Bf3h5p bc3e5N Re8e5b bh3g4 Bh5g6p rf1h1 Kh6g5 pf5g6B Kg5g6p 11(6)<ch> 'g4' #[Kh6](-64)##########[TIMEOUT][et3 392 sec]################# -64 T=187 Kg7h6 pg4h5P Bf3h5p kf2g3 Kh6g5 pg6g7 Ne5c4 ne3c4N Pb5c4n pf5f6 Bh5f7 rf1f5 Kg5h6 rf5a5 Pe4e3 --------------------------------------- --> 39. .. Kh6 <-- 1/28:15 --------------------------------------- So we see deep blue did not even completely finish ply 11. It has a score of -0.5 here, because pawn = 128 in deep blue. It then extends in its mainline a lot of stupid moves. All the captures you see it extend. After that it has another 4 ply hardware depth at most, because it forward pruned in that depth a lot. Note that *all* the lines without such captures or forced moves it was trivially searching 11 ply. After 3 minutes shredder has 19 plies. that's with forward pruning but also excluding extensions. > 19/38 3:06 -1.95-- 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Ke3 Bf3 >44.Bxf3 h3 45.Bxe4 Kg8 46.f6 Rd5 47.Kf3 Rf5+ 48.Bxf5 Re3+ 49.Kxe3 (79.934.819) >428.5 21 ply gets shown here. After that there is things like qsearch and possibly hashtables also filtered away the last moves into qsearch. So it is *at least* 21 ply. You are still continueing the statement that deep blue was great? In a lost position it played a lost move and didn't even realize it had a lost position. It said -0.5, whereas shredder at a depth bigger than deep blue (12 ply) already has -1.70. So how can you say that a misevaluating program is good in this position? >Shredder 7 >1875 mhz Amd XP >192 hash > >Deep Blue Game 1 >39...Kh6 >404 Hours >405 kns >590.259.424.036 nodes >Depth 28/66 > > > [D] 3rr3/6k1/2p3P1/1p2nP1p/pP2p1P1/P1B1Nb1B/2P2K2/5R2 b - - > > 12/26 0:01 -1.70++ 39...h4 (818.861) 494.1 > 12/26 0:01 -1.70 39...h4 (818.862) 494.1 > 13/13 0:01 -1.70 39...h4 (824.434) 493.0 > 14/14 0:02 -1.70 39...h4 (1.131.517) 495.8 > 15/15 0:03 -1.70 39...h4 (1.689.602) 505.2 > 16/16 0:04 -1.70 39...h4 (2.476.787) 519.6 > 17/17 0:09 -1.70 39...h4 (4.588.882) 509.8 > 18/18 0:22 -1.70 39...h4 (10.785.598) 482.7 > 19/38 3:06 -1.95-- 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Ke3 Bf3 >44.Bxf3 h3 45.Bxe4 Kg8 46.f6 Rd5 47.Kf3 Rf5+ 48.Bxf5 Re3+ 49.Kxe3 (79.934.819) >428.5 > 19/43 4:47 -1.95 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Ke3 h3 >44.Bxe4 Rd1 45.g7+ Kg8 46.Rf2 Rg1 47.f6 Rg3+ 48.Kd4 Rd8+ 49.Bd5+ cxd5 >(126.000.396) 438.6 > 20/45 17:04 -1.70++ 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Ke3 h3 >44.Bxe4 h2 45.Bb2 Rxe4+ 46.Kxe4 Rd1 47.Rxd1 Bxd1 48.g7+ Kg8 49.Ke5 (430.752.923) >420.5 > 20/46 24:16 -1.38 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Kg1 e3 44.Rf4 >h3 45.Bxc6 Rd1+ 46.Kh2 Rc8 47.f6 Bh5 (610.105.856) 418.9 > 21/44 34:05 -1.63-- 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.g7+ Kf7 >44.Ke3 h3 45.g6+ Ke7 46.Bxe4 Rf8 47.gxf8Q+ Kd7 48.f6 (848.952.120) 414.9 > 21/47 45:10 -2.12 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Ke3 h3 44.Rf4 >hxg2 45.Rxg4 Rd1 46.Rxg2 Rh1 47.Bd4 Rh3+ 48.Kd2 (1.119.858.859) 413.1 > 22/47 90:26 -2.37-- 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Ke3 h3 >44.Rf4 hxg2 45.Rxg4 Rd1 46.Rxg2 Rh1 47.Bd4 Rh3+ 48.Ke2 Rd8 (2.198.716.480) 405.1 > 22/51 100:16 -2.37 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Ke3 h3 >44.Rf4 hxg2 45.Rxg4 Rd1 46.Rxg2 Rh1 47.Bd4 Rh3+ 48.Ke2 Rd8 49.g7+ Kg8 >(2.444.847.669) 406.3 > 23/56 193:06 -2.62-- 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Ke3 h3 >44.Rf4 hxg2 45.Rxg4 Rd1 46.Rxg2 Rh1 47.Rg3 Rh2 48.f6 Rxc2 49.Bd4 (4.631.009.303) >399.6 > 23/56 223:39 -3.12-- 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Ng4+ 42.Nxg4 Bxg4 43.Ke3 h3 >44.Rf4 hxg2 45.Rxg4 Rd1 46.Rxg2 Rh1 47.Rg3 Rh2 48.f6 Rxc2 49.Bd4 (5.331.426.365) >397.2 > 23/57 308:27 -3.70 39...h4 40.g5 Kg8 41.Bg2 Bxg2 42.Kxg2 Rd7 43.Bxe5 Rxe5 >44.Ng4 Rdd5 45.Kh3 Kf8 46.Nxe5 Rxe5 47.Kxh4 e3 (7.336.583.990) 396.4 > 23/57 624:32 -3.69++ 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Bg4 Bxg6 42.fxg6 Kxg6 43.Bf5+ >Kf7 44.Bxe5 Rxe5 45.Ng4 Rxf5+ 46.Ke3 Rxf1 47.Nh6+ Rxh6 48.Kxe4 (14.957.435.678) >399.1 > 23/57 679:05 -3.34++ 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Bg4 Bxg6 42.fxg6 Kxg6 43.Bf5+ >Kf7 44.Bxe5 Rxe5 45.Ng4 Rxf5+ 46.Ke3 Rxf1 47.Nh6+ Rxh6 48.Kxe4 c5 >(16.322.469.787) 400.6 > 23/57 709:16 -3.34 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Bg4 Bxg6 42.fxg6 Kxg6 43.Bf5+ Kf7 >44.Rh1 Ng6 45.Rh7+ Kf8 46.Rh6 Kf7 47.Ng4 Red8 48.Rh7+ (17.068.296.033) 401.0 > 24/55 911:50 -3.59-- 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Rg1 Rf6 42.Bg4 Bxg4 43.Rxg4 Re7 >44.Rxe4 c5 45.Bxe5 cxb4 46.Bxf6+ Kxf6 47.Rxb4 (21.921.021.204) 400.6 > 24/59 1015:50 -3.73 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Rg1 Kg8 42.Bg4 Nxg4+ 43.Rxg4 Rf8 >44.Ke1 Rxg6 45.fxg6 Rf3 46.Rxe4 Bxg6 47.Re7 Bxc2 48.Bd4 Bb3 (24.469.191.763) >401.4 > 24/59 1041:10 -3.72++ 39...h4 40.g5 (25.131.053.796) 402.2 > 24/59 1159:06 -3.69 39...h4 40.g5 Kg8 41.Bg2 Bxg2 42.Kxg2 Rd7 43.Kh3 Nc4 >44.Nxc4 bxc4 45.f6 Red8 46.Kxh4 Kf8 47.f7 Rxf7 48.gxf7 c5 (27.910.013.046) 401.3 > 25/59 1823:39 -3.80 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Bh5 42.Rh1 Bxg6 43.fxg6 Nxg6 >44.Rf1 Rd7 45.Ke2+ Rf7 46.Bf6 (43.528.246.828) 397.8 > 26/61 3448:38 -4.03 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 c5 42.Bxf3 Nxf3 43.f6 Ne5 44.g7+ >Kg8 45.bxc5 Rd7 46.Ke2 Rdd8 47.g6 (81.900.684.843) 395.8 > 26/61 3932:56 -4.02++ 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Rg1 Kg8 42.Bg4 Nxg4+ 43.Rxg4 >Rf8 44.Ke1 Rxg6 45.fxg6 Rf3 46.Rxe4 Bxg6 47.Re7 Bxc2 48.Bd4 Kf8 (93.903.358.486) >397.9 > 26/61 4149:36 -4.02 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Rg1 Kg8 42.Bg4 Nxg4+ 43.Rxg4 Rf8 >44.Rg5 Bd1 45.Nxd1 Rxd1 46.Rh5 Rxf5+ 47.Rxf5 Rc1 48.Kg3 (99.038.996.563) 397.7 > 27/57 6460:16 -4.27-- 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Rg1 Kg8 42.Bg4 Nxg4+ 43.Rxg4 >Rf8 44.Rg5 Bd1 45.Nxd1 Rxd1 46.Rh5 Rxf5+ 47.Rxf5 Rc1 48.Kg3 (153.620.222.788) >396.3 > 27/65 7524:12 -4.31 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Rg1 Kg8 42.Bg4 Nxg4+ 43.Rxg4 >Bxg4 44.Nxg4 e3+ 45.Ke1 e2 46.Nh6+ Kf8 47.f6 Rd1+ 48.Kf2 Rf1+ 49.Kg2 Re5 >(179.888.832.802) 398.4 > 27/65 7769:35 -4.30++ 39...h4 40.g5 (186.236.263.558) 399.4 > 27/65 8795:27 -3.97 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Bh5 42.Rh1 Bxg6 43.Rxh4 Bf7 >44.Bxe4 Bg8 45.f6 Kf7 46.Nf5 Kg6 47.Ng7+ Kxg5 48.Kg3 (210.817.600.678) 399.4 > 28/60 12777:32 -4.22-- 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Bh5 42.Rh1 Bxg6 43.Rxh4 Bf7 >44.Bxe4 Bg8 45.f6 Kf7 46.Nf5 Kg6 47.Ng7+ Kxg5 48.Kg3 (305.337.441.606) 398.2 > 28/65 14804:01 -4.56 39...h4 40.g5 Kf8 41.Bg2 Bxg2 42.Kxg2 c5 43.bxc5 Rc8 >44.Rh1 Rxc5 45.Bb4 Rec8 46.Rxh4 Nxg6 (353.699.752.168) 398.2 > 28/65 16295:25 -4.55++ 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Rg1 (391.581.817.611) 400.5 > 28/66 19457:45 -4.40 39...Rd6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Rg1 Kf8 42.Rg5 Bxg6 43.fxg6 >Nxg6 44.Nf5 e3+ 45.Ke1 Ne5 46.Nxd6 Nf3+ 47.Ke2 (470.342.435.265) 402.8 > 28/66 24265:29 -4.39++ 39...Kh6 40.gxh5 Bxh5 41.Rh1 Nxg6 42.fxg6 Kxg6 43.Rg1+ >Kf7 44.Rg7+ Kf8 45.Rg5 Bf7 46.Bg7+ Ke7 47.Nf5+ Kd7 48.Bf6 e3+ 49.Nxe3+ Be6 >50.Bxe6+ Kxe6 (590.259.424.036) 405.4 >best move: Kg7-h6 time: 24511:18.922 min n/s: 405.604 CPU 99.6% nodes: >596.513.874.980 TB: 5.904 > > >[Event "IBM Kasparov vs. Deep Blue Rematch"] >[Site "New York, NY USA"] >[Date "1997.05.03"] >[Round "1"] >[White "Kasparov, Garry"] >[Black "Deep Blue"] >[Opening "Reti: King's Indian attack, Keres variation"] >[ECO "A07"] >[Result "1-0"] > >1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 Bg4 3.b3 Nd7 4.Bb2 e6 5.Bg2 Ngf6 6.O-O c6 7.d3 Bd6 >8.Nbd2 O-O 9.h3 Bh5 10.e3 h6 11.Qe1 Qa5 12.a3 Bc7 13.Nh4 g5 >14.Nhf3 e5 15.e4 Rfe8 16.Nh2 Qb6 17.Qc1 a5 18.Re1 Bd6 19.Ndf1 dxe4 >20.dxe4 Bc5 21.Ne3 Rad8 22.Nhf1 g4 23.hxg4 Nxg4 24.f3 Nxe3 >25.Nxe3 Be7 26.Kh1 Bg5 27.Re2 a4 28.b4 f5 29.exf5 e4 30.f4 Bxe2 >31.fxg5 Ne5 32.g6 Bf3 33.Bc3 Qb5 34.Qf1 Qxf1+ 35.Rxf1 h5 36.Kg1 Kf8 >37.Bh3 b5 38.Kf2 Kg7 39.g4 Kh6 40.Rg1 hxg4 41.Bxg4 Bxg4 >42.Nxg4+ Nxg4+ 43.Rxg4 Rd5 44.f6 Rd1 45.g7 1-0 > >kburcham
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