Author: Janos Kenirath
Date: 00:15:26 10/27/98
Go up one level in this thread
On October 26, 1998 at 12:43:26, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>Here is the tail end of a game played between my program (Ferret) on a 533 mhz
>Alpha and Crafty on a dual 450 mhz Pentium II, at time control of 5 0, on ICC.
>
>My program got smoked in a K+P ending it traded into (apparently) voluntarily.
>
>One of the things you hear about if you talk to old-timers in this field is that
>the square of the pawn is a totally important evaluation term. I'm not sure who
>said it, but someone said that it's worth 100 Elo points. This was a long time
>ago, back when programs would get killed in endings routinely, but I get the
>idea that this wisdom hasn't been re-evaluated much since then. It is my
>opinion that square of the pawn is worth almost nothing in practical play, since
>the number of K+P endings that actually occur, with play still in them, seems to
>be approximately zero.
>
>This ending may prove to be a counter-example. I currently don't have this
>knowledge in my program. I'm going to stick it back in and see if it
>understands this ending better.
>
>I would be interested in knowing if anyone has any thoughts about this subject
>in general or this ending in particular.
>
>[White "Ferret"]
>[Black "Box"]
>[Result "0-1"]
>[ECO "C75"]
>[WhiteElo "2986"]
>[BlackElo "2969"]
>[Opening "Ruy Lopez: modern Steinitz defense"]
>[NIC "RL.11"]
>[Time "19:46:56"]
>[TimeControl "300+0"]
>[SetUp "1"]
>[FEN "8/6pp/4pk2/4p3/2PqP3/3Q2P1/4KP2/8 w - - 18 62"]
>
>62. Qxd4 exd4 63. f4 e5 64. c5 exf4 65. gxf4 h5 66. e5+ Ke6 67. Kd3 h4 68. c6
>g6 69. c7 Kd7 70. Kxd4 h3 71. Ke3 h2 {White resigns} 0-1
>
>--------------------------------
>
> a b c d e f g h
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>8 | |///| |///| |///| |///| 8
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>7 |///| |///| |///| |/p/| p | 7
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>6 | |///| |///| p |/k/| |///| 6
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>5 |///| |///| |/p/| |///| | 5
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>4 | |///| P |/q/| P |///| |///| 4
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>3 |///| |///| Q |///| |/P/| | 3
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>2 | |///| |///| K |/P/| |///| 2
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>1 |///| |///| |///| |///| | 1
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
> a b c d e f g h
>
>8/6pp/4pk2/4p3/2PqP3/3Q2P1/4KP2/8 w - - 18 62
>
>White to move and lose. My program played 62. Qxd4, with a score of about +1,
>although the move apparently loses by force. I would be interested to know if
>other programs avoid 62. Qxd4. If white can safely avoid this move it should be
>better, I think.
>
>--------------------------------
>
> a b c d e f g h
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>8 | |///| |///| |///| |///| 8
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>7 |///| |///| |///| |/p/| p | 7
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>6 | |///| |///| p |/k/| |///| 6
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>5 |///| |///| |///| |///| | 5
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>4 | |///| P |/p/| P |///| |///| 4
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>3 |///| |///| |///| |/P/| | 3
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>2 | |///| |///| K |/P/| |///| 2
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>1 |///| |///| |///| |///| | 1
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
> a b c d e f g h
>
>8/6pp/4pk2/8/2PpP3/6P1/4KP2/8 w - - 0 63
>
>White to move. Here is the positions with the queens off, if this helps anyone.
> I think white is lost already here.
>
>--------------------------------
>
> a b c d e f g h
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>8 | |///| |///| |///| |///| 8
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>7 |///| |///| |///| |/p/| | 7
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>6 | |///| |///| |/k/| |///| 6
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>5 |///| |/P/| |///| |///| p | 5
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>4 | |///| |/p/| P |/P/| |///| 4
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>3 |///| |///| |///| |///| | 3
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>2 | |///| |///| K |///| |///| 2
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
>1 |///| |///| |///| |///| | 1
> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
> a b c d e f g h
>
>8/6p1/5k2/2P4p/3pPP2/8/4K3/8 w - - 0 66
>
>White to move is completely lost. Mine figures this out after a while, but it
>takes too long, in my opinion (over a minute on a P6/200 to really start to
>crater). I'd be interested in knowing if anyone knows they are dead quickly.
>
>Thanks,
>
>bruce
In the last position black big adantage is the 2 'distant pass panws',
h5 and d4. They are very strong, because they can move without help of
the black king. If the white king capture one of them (for example
d4 pawn - 65.Kd3 h4 66.Kxd4 h3) the other one will promoted.
The black king can stop the c and e pawns easily - the distant between
files is too little.
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