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Subject: Re: Could you "BUY" the world championship

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 23:27:31 07/21/03

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On July 22, 2003 at 02:22:44, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On July 22, 2003 at 00:04:58, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On July 21, 2003 at 23:50:38, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On July 21, 2003 at 23:47:12, Derek Paquette wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hey, while I agree it would cost  A LOT
>>>>i have to disagree with you on the point that it "isn't" possible.
>>>>While all wins might seem crazy,
>>>>If 15 million dollars was invested into it,
>>>>a machine that dwarfed deep blue,
>>>>with much larger openning books, (only 4000 lines for deep blue, and people
>>>>think DJ8 that has hundreds of thousands was just as strong? dont' get that, but
>>>>neway)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>if its looking at a TRUE 20 ply ahead, I don't see how it could lose with that
>>>>much invested.
>>>
>>>It will lose very rarely, but will still draw quite frequently...
>>
>>Let's suppose that though a titanic bucket of money, the speed of Deep Blue were
>>increased thusly:
>>
>>Per-CPU speedup 100x (already achieved 10x, I think -- 100x should be doable)
>>CPU number increase 10x (480 to 4,800)
>>
>>so we have 1000x power increase.  That would correspond to about 10 doublings in
>>power.
>>That would be 500 ELO.
>
>How did you calculate this?
>
>Assuming a branching factor of 3, log(1000)/log(3) is about 6 plies. 6
>additional plies will increase the strength significantly, but not more than 200
>Elo in my opinion (diminishing returns, etc).

50 ELO per doubling of speed is the lower end of the standard estimates (50-70
ELO is the heuristic figure).

As far as diminishing returns go, it has been demonstrated by one study and
refuted by another.

>Computers are already stronger than humans in tactics, so 6 additional plies
>will just be an overkill. On the other hand, those 6 additional plies will
>hardly make up for the program's inferior positional understanding in comparison
>to humans.

With 6 more plies, tactics become strategy.  If a program that can consider 12
plies (6 full moves) can now consider 18 plies, that is 9 fullmoves ahead.

If we have some sort of selective search going on, I think we will see true
strategies emerging.
[snip]



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